cx500 There was for many years a joint Via-Amtrak Toronto-Chicago train, but one of several issues was the unpredictable time spent crossing the border (at Sarnia/Port Huron). Towards the end it left Toronto at a horribly early hour in the morning. I never did comprehend why it always used the much slower back route from Toronto through Kitchener to London. But then again, all too often Via seemed blind to what used to be obvious points in the heyday of passenger services. Probably too busy at management meetings to bother to understand the business! John
There was for many years a joint Via-Amtrak Toronto-Chicago train, but one of several issues was the unpredictable time spent crossing the border (at Sarnia/Port Huron). Towards the end it left Toronto at a horribly early hour in the morning. I never did comprehend why it always used the much slower back route from Toronto through Kitchener to London. But then again, all too often Via seemed blind to what used to be obvious points in the heyday of passenger services. Probably too busy at management meetings to bother to understand the business!
John
I suspect the reason they originally choose the Port Huron routing was the faster speeds on that route. Seems to me though since VIA had a parallel Windsor-Toronto route, the economy of savings in train operations would have been to just extend one or more of the Windsor-Toronto runs under the Detroit river and onto MC station and then Chicago. Pooling funds and equipment with Amtrak.
The custom delays is the stupid way that customs in this country and Canada operate. They can start the inspections on the moving train as it heads East in Michigan and vixe Versa as it heads West in Canada. Not all that difficult really, in Europe all they do is seal the cars at the vestibule and go seat by seat. The last 2-3 cars in the consist remain open for local stops and then are emptied prior to crossing the border or filled with passengers already pre-inspected in Detroit.
This approach has also been discussed repeatedly for TSA at our airports. TSA can easily do their inspections while folks are in line at the check-in counter, then move the passengers to the secure waiting / lobby area. Probably requires some reconfiguration of some airports but it is doable and would also make for a much better flying experience. Government needs outside pressure to think along the lines of convienence though.
CMStPnP I think the only solution your going to see that works with this station is a cooperative venture between Amtrak and VIA rail between Chicago and Toronto. Using the underwater river tunnel. Since a private company owns the station and the tunnels, lots of negotiation needed there and lots of money so probably not likely. It's always been a mystery to me why Detroit and Canada do not open more opportunities to travel across the border between countries. If it was up to me I would setup a pooling equipment arrangement with Canada so that VIA and Amtrak equipment could be pooled in Chicago - Toronto service and run the service through the MC Depot. MC Depot is far from downtown but probably closer to downtown then the New Center Station. You could probably keep New Center in operation and points north with either a shuttle train or via a train split at New Center. Thats how I would do it. Would take a lot of money though as MC station is pretty far gone, would need new equipment probably to entice Canada, probably streamlined customs as well as some major trackwork to speed runs.
I think the only solution your going to see that works with this station is a cooperative venture between Amtrak and VIA rail between Chicago and Toronto. Using the underwater river tunnel. Since a private company owns the station and the tunnels, lots of negotiation needed there and lots of money so probably not likely. It's always been a mystery to me why Detroit and Canada do not open more opportunities to travel across the border between countries.
If it was up to me I would setup a pooling equipment arrangement with Canada so that VIA and Amtrak equipment could be pooled in Chicago - Toronto service and run the service through the MC Depot.
MC Depot is far from downtown but probably closer to downtown then the New Center Station. You could probably keep New Center in operation and points north with either a shuttle train or via a train split at New Center.
Thats how I would do it. Would take a lot of money though as MC station is pretty far gone, would need new equipment probably to entice Canada, probably streamlined customs as well as some major trackwork to speed runs.
Is the MC station near where there is revitalization of the downtown going on?. Saw something on PBS of several companys moving into the downtown area?
An educational institution is the very best solution for the building. Attracts employment and students. Research and laboratories at the same time. And a good library. Again, it is not downtown and never was. The Brush Street and Fort Street stations were downtown.
lattasnip9 I hate to resurrect and old topic but I think that this may generate some ideas for how to revitalize Michigan Central Station and Michigan Ave in Downtown Detroit. I have a few starters that may even spur some economic development for a city that's not exactly up to it's potential right now: -Is it possible to relocate the current Amtrak station to MI Central Station? I see on Google Maps that with the only route going through Detroit is the Wolverine (three trains/day). The only way to incorporate MI Central Station into the mix is to include a reverse move out of the station and back onto the main line because the station is on a dead end branch. If high speed plans (I don't know what they are, if any) ever become realities, would this reverse move have to be eliminated with the construction of an extension through to the mainline? This would definitely take a few minutes off of the schedule. Also, the station is closer to downtown than the current Amtrak facility. -The to-be M1 light rail line (map here: http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20090522&Category=METRO&ArtNo=905220401&Ref=AR) can be complemented with a similar light rail line or streetcar line on Michigan Ave. This line could extend to MI Central Station and allow for passengers arriving by train or bus to reach downtown quickly and easily. Similarly, the construction of bike trails parallel to Michigan Ave can allow a sustainable transit scene for a less auto-dependent Detroit. Back to MI Central Station, I think it's a pity that such a beautiful architectural icon should sit to empty and windowless. It's been the poster child of urban decay in Detroit for too long. I think that at least a portion of it should be used for it's original purpose: transit. A transit facility within the city will help to create economic activity allows for a more desirable Detroit for newcomers from the outer suburbs and those from other cities. Also, it's location near active rail could make it more cost effective for transit projects. I know that other potential uses have included: a casino, a tourist attraction, a hotel, and government facilities. I don't think that the station should be used for a government facility of any sort as this does not spur any economic development except for the limited number of jobs created by preparing it for use that does not promote business. I'm really up for a way to restore Detroit to it's former glory as a center for prosperity even after the collapse of the auto industry and the departure of manufacturing jobs. Any other ideas? I'm open.
I hate to resurrect and old topic but I think that this may generate some ideas for how to revitalize Michigan Central Station and Michigan Ave in Downtown Detroit. I have a few starters that may even spur some economic development for a city that's not exactly up to it's potential right now:
-Is it possible to relocate the current Amtrak station to MI Central Station? I see on Google Maps that with the only route going through Detroit is the Wolverine (three trains/day). The only way to incorporate MI Central Station into the mix is to include a reverse move out of the station and back onto the main line because the station is on a dead end branch. If high speed plans (I don't know what they are, if any) ever become realities, would this reverse move have to be eliminated with the construction of an extension through to the mainline? This would definitely take a few minutes off of the schedule. Also, the station is closer to downtown than the current Amtrak facility.
-The to-be M1 light rail line (map here: http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20090522&Category=METRO&ArtNo=905220401&Ref=AR) can be complemented with a similar light rail line or streetcar line on Michigan Ave. This line could extend to MI Central Station and allow for passengers arriving by train or bus to reach downtown quickly and easily. Similarly, the construction of bike trails parallel to Michigan Ave can allow a sustainable transit scene for a less auto-dependent Detroit.
Back to MI Central Station, I think it's a pity that such a beautiful architectural icon should sit to empty and windowless. It's been the poster child of urban decay in Detroit for too long. I think that at least a portion of it should be used for it's original purpose: transit. A transit facility within the city will help to create economic activity allows for a more desirable Detroit for newcomers from the outer suburbs and those from other cities. Also, it's location near active rail could make it more cost effective for transit projects. I know that other potential uses have included: a casino, a tourist attraction, a hotel, and government facilities.
I don't think that the station should be used for a government facility of any sort as this does not spur any economic development except for the limited number of jobs created by preparing it for use that does not promote business.
I'm really up for a way to restore Detroit to it's former glory as a center for prosperity even after the collapse of the auto industry and the departure of manufacturing jobs.
Any other ideas? I'm open.
I think it definitely has a future as the world's greatest Halloween spook house. It wouldn't even need any prep work it could be use as is.
And just how do you propose to pay for this? Also, the place is privately owned, by the owner of the Ambassador Bridge who is totally distracted by trying to get a new parallel bridge built.
Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
Kentucky Southern Railway
I used the Michigan Central Station many times, beginning as an 13-year old in 1945, duirng WWII. I would arrive on the overnight Woverine or the evening arrival Empire State Express, wall over to Michigan and Trumble, and take the Trumble Peter Witt streetcar to 5 Mile Road and Livernois, and then transfer to the Livernoise Ford Transit bus to some cross street (forget which) between McNichols/6 Mile and 7 Mile to walk over to Muirland for my relatives' home. Michigan Central Station was never downtown and still isn't. I don't think a reverse move is practical. I think it would make a marvelous home for an educational institution, for a college or technical school. I could also take a Michigan Avenue streetcar east to 14th Street, take a 14 car to U. of Detroit loop, and then go north on the Livernois bus. I last used it before Amtrak moved out and was picked up by a Hertz shuttle to go to their rent-a-car office.
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