The X-Train: Los Angeles - Las Vegas Passenger Service, Summer 2011

[Southwest Chief]

As much as I would love to see this or any rail service to Vegas, several questions/issues bother me.

1)  If this is not being operated by Amtrak, how will they get permission to run over BNSF and UP trackage? 

BNSF might allow it, but we all know that UP will never grant this without track improvements...still not double tracked to Vegas.

2)  If they are not using Amtrak equipment, where the heck are they going to get equipment?

I would think the surplus Amtrak Horizon fleet stored in Los Angeles would be suitable...unless they were move out to Michigan again.

3)  What locomotives will pull the train?

The American Orient Express (GrandLuxe) was typically if not always pulled by Amtrak locomotives, using qualified engineers for the routes and for the locos (mostly P42s).

 

So while this would be great if they can actually pull it off, but I don't think they can.  At least not by 2011.

[Metro Red Line]

tomikawaTT

Getting a new gaming license in Nevada isn't as hard as licensing a nuclear power plant - quite.  Then, look at a route map.  Even a slow train isn't going to spend enough time in Nevada to play more than a few hands of Texas hold-em.  The far longer time in California will, of necessity, be non-gambling.

I

 

I heard in the radio interview that on the California side, they might be able to have gaming instruction workshops or simulated gaming (i.e. Poker, Blackjack, Roulette games without money bets).

[tomikawaTT]

Getting a new gaming license in Nevada isn't as hard as licensing a nuclear power plant - quite.  Then, look at a route map.  Even a slow train isn't going to spend enough time in Nevada to play more than a few hands of Texas hold-em.  The far longer time in California will, of necessity, be non-gambling.

I agree that the (non) planners behind this scheme may have been confused by the words common carrier.  UP will gladly haul cargo, in their cars or the shipper's (as long as the shipper's cars are FRA-compliant.)  OTOH, if the shipper thinks that they can load up a bunch of cars with passengers, booze and dancing girls...

It seems to me that the UP doesn't want any part of this.  Can't say that I blame them.

(By the way, has anyone priced the insurance that would be required?)

Chuck (Las Vegas Resident)

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'm not familiar with Nevada's gaming laws, but I'm sure that you have to jump through a lot of hoops to obtain a license.  I would assume that employees of the licenseholder would require background checks and a lot of other folderol that UP would not want to deal with.  As far as UP is concerned, a gaming license may be more bother than it's worth.

Concerning the backers of this proposal, they appear to think that operating this train over UP between Los Angeles and Las Vegas will not be very different from operating a fancy tour bus on I-15.  They're in for quite a jolt when they approach UP about operating requirements and arrangements.

[Sawtooth500]

What I'm wondering is why UP said that it wouldn't allow any gambling on it's property - after all UP is a corporation, the point of which is to make money. And we all know that gambling can make a company a ton of money... if I were UP that's a piece of the pie that I'd want instead of just a fee for trackage rights. Not to mention that you can't look at ticket price alone - X-train was going to be $99 round trip (my understanding), but then add in the booze, entertainment, (and imagine if gambling), and that's what is really going to make you the money, not the ticket fares. I think they are right on the money by planning to have an entire entertainment arsenal on the train - and that's why it could be economically feasible.

[henry6]

Metro Red Line

henry6

Cannot compare west coast LA to Los Vegas to east coast NY to Atlantic City for a number of reasons: the distances are greater LA to LV; lots of road and rail congestion NYC to AC; rail connections are non direct NYC to AC and extra long via Corridor and NJT ( because shorter rail routes and connections are gone).  Two different geographies, two different societies, two different operations and marketing needs. 

 

 

I never saw any serious comparison other than both trains are services between a major metropolitan area and a major gambling city in an adjoining state, that's all...

 

Yes, I know.  But it was mentioned so I just wanted to caution readers that comparing the two scenarios in not plausable.

[Metro Red Line]

beaulieu

CSSHEGEWISCH

This sounds quite similar to the American European Express of recent memory, which was notably undercapitalized and underutilized.  It sounds quite upscale and will probably too costly to attract much of the weekend crowd, assuming it even gets off the ground.  Lots of hoopla so far, not too much in the way of hard data.

 

Discussion on another railroad forum believes that the Las Vegas "X-train" is just a "Pump and Dump" scheme, designed to capitalize on the rail passenger interest. There is a broadly similar "Z-train" also is looking at LA to LV, with a plan that looks more realistic. Note that a senior UP officially has stated that no company has approached the UP with any serious plan to run over their tracks.

 

 

I'd like to hear some of the other thoughts on this. I just heard about it during a radio show. I'm neither an advocate nor opponent of this, just someone who's curious about the rail service. Overall I think any new rail passenger rail service is good, but I have a lot of questions regarding this operation, which seems to have very little experience in the railroad business. Even the transportation consulting firm they're working with doesn't have any rail experience. There's no specific mention of the rail equipment even though they have a press release saying one rail car set has been purchased. The pictures they use look like they're using an old EMD E-unit pulling some rebuilt Morrison-Knutsen commuter coaches. Unless they're going for a vintage railroad theme, you'd have though they would be using State-Of-The-Art rail equipment, right?

[Metro Red Line]

henry6

Cannot compare west coast LA to Los Vegas to east coast NY to Atlantic City for a number of reasons: the distances are greater LA to LV; lots of road and rail congestion NYC to AC; rail connections are non direct NYC to AC and extra long via Corridor and NJT ( because shorter rail routes and connections are gone).  Two different geographies, two different societies, two different operations and marketing needs. 

 

 

I never saw any serious comparison other than both trains are services between a major metropolitan area and a major gambling city in an adjoining state, that's all...

[tomikawaTT]

This is a new one on me, and has a definite aroma of seriously corroded fish!

There is a project that has been ongoing for some time now under the name Desert Xpress that was supposed to break ground for construction in March.  Projected to run in the median of I-15 (yeah, right!!  Have they checked out the grades on I-15?)  Senator Harry Reid is promoting it, as HSR, but it's planned to run from Las Vegas to a park-and-ride in Victorville (at the top of Cajon Pass) and the local media people regard it as a joke when they mention it at all.

Desert Xpress wouldn't use UP tracks.  I assume that anyone who would like to would have flown this by UP BEFORE setting up shop to sell stock on the open market.  Anyone who would buy into this would be a serious customer for beachfront property in Denver and a ski and snowboard resort in the Florida Everglades...

Chuck (Las Vegas resident)

[henry6]

Cannot compare west coast LA to Los Vegas to east coast NY to Atlantic City for a number of reasons: the distances are greater LA to LV; lots of road and rail congestion NYC to AC; rail connections are non direct NYC to AC and extra long via Corridor and NJT ( because shorter rail routes and connections are gone).  Two different geographies, two different societies, two different operations and marketing needs. 

[beaulieu]

CSSHEGEWISCH

This sounds quite similar to the American European Express of recent memory, which was notably undercapitalized and underutilized.  It sounds quite upscale and will probably too costly to attract much of the weekend crowd, assuming it even gets off the ground.  Lots of hoopla so far, not too much in the way of hard data.

 

Discussion on another railroad forum believes that the Las Vegas "X-train" is just a "Pump and Dump" scheme, designed to capitalize on the rail passenger interest. There is a broadly similar "Z-train" also is looking at LA to LV, with a plan that looks more realistic. Note that a senior UP officially has stated that no company has approached the UP with any serious plan to run over their tracks.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

This sounds quite similar to the American European Express of recent memory, which was notably undercapitalized and underutilized.  It sounds quite upscale and will probably too costly to attract much of the weekend crowd, assuming it even gets off the ground.  Lots of hoopla so far, not too much in the way of hard data.

[daveklepper]

Wish them luck.   A west coast version of the new NY-Atlantic Citiy service.  Not as successful as hoped, but still seems viable.

[Metro Red Line]

I just heard about this recently:

http://www.xtrainvegas.com/

Though there's plans to bring conventional HSR or Maglev passenger train service between Los Angeles and its farthest suburb - Las Vegas :), those plans are still just concepts, years away from happening. But apparently a private group, funded by several Las Vegas investors, intends to bring conventional rail service between the two cities coming Summer 2011, known as the X-Train.

Coming 14 years after the demise of Amtrak's Desert Wind train, this new service will take the same 5 - 5 1/2 hours, but plans to add "The Las Vegas Experience" on the voyage as an incentive to lure riders off their cars and out of the airports and on to the X-Train. Amenities will include fine dining cuisine, a "Sports Bar Car," entertainment and onboard gambling and/or gaming classes, (depending on which side of the state line the train is on).

The train is planned to run once a day Thursdays-Mondays when it starts up next year. It will NOT be operated by Amtrak nor use any Amtrak equipment.