Confused on High Speed Rail Plans

[dakotafred]

You watch: Federally assisted HSR will be an EARLY casualty of the anticipated freeze the administration will seek on discretionary spending. HSR (90-110 mph) is a nice idea and devoutly wished by this old train rider; but face it, folks, entitlements are soaking up all the money even BEFORE expansion of health care. So, enjoy tomorrow's announcements -- I don't think there will be any others. We will be lucky to keep Amtrak.

[oltmannd]

BT CPSO 266

I though the routes designated for high speed passenger trains were to be electrified? like the keystone service and the Northeast Regionals

No such designation. In fact, the DOT did a demo project for a high speed gas turbine locomotive. Keystone is only electrified because the wires were strung in 1937.

BT CPSO 266

Where is it mentioned that these trains are going to be run one diesel power?

I don't know of any active corridor studies that are contemplating electrification other than California.

[BT CPSO 266]

HarveyK400

Some of these have gotten a bit past just doing studies. (Amtrak's Harrisburg Line and the North Carolina RR are the most notable) Most of these are based on 90-110 mph improvements to existing lines to operate diesel hauled trains. California is the most notable exception with their true electrified HSR proposal.

 

I though the routes designated for high speed passenger trains were to be electrified? like the keystone service and the Northeast Regionals. Where is it mentioned that these trains are going to be run one diesel power?

[HarveyK400]

Maybe after the primary some dust will settle; but it might not be until November that Illinois may or may not give money to finish upgrading CHI-STL to 110.

oltmannd

BT CPSO 266

I am confused, The US High Speed Rail Association has a 3 phase plan to have complete 200 mph + train routes to start from scratch.

http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html

Now President Obama said he just wants to upgrade several existing freight routes to 90-110 mph. I live in Western Pa. Obama's plan will serve more communities, but the USHSRA will go strait from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh.

I am confused to what exactly the plan is.  

The US High Speed Rail Association isn't much more than a lobbying group that draws lines on a map. The only thing close to an official plan is the US gov't map of "designated high speed corridors" (you can find it at the FRA web site). This isn't much more than a collection of lines on a map that Congress had some input drawing. None have much Federal funding beyond studies. Some states and groups of states have drawn their own lines on maps. Some of these have gotten a bit past just doing studies. (Amtrak's Harrisburg Line and the North Carolina RR are the most notable) Most of these are based on 90-110 mph improvements to existing lines to operate diesel hauled trains. California is the most notable exception with their true electrified HSR proposal. Now, add to this the Obama admins proposal to award $8B to get some of these "lines on the map" into actual operation. As Blue Streak has noted, it will only fund a small percentage of the applications that have been made by the states to get it. If I remember right, the winners will be announced coincident with the State of the Union address.

 

[oltmannd]

In my opinion, real HSR won't happen until it can be shown that the $8B that will mostly go for 90-110 mph projects produces the predicted benefits. If the costs come in over the estimates and/or the benefits under, any future projects will be a hard sell. It seems there is a window of opportunity now to invest in some passenger rail improvements, but if the public believes that it's just another government boondoggle, the window will slam shut in a hurry. Some of these regional networks might even touch ends, buy the end game might look more like a several regional networks of HSR knitted into a national network of air routes and highways than it does the USHSRA map, I think. The distances between the Mississippi and the west coast are just too great and the populations centers too small and infrequent to justify HSR construction.

[BT CPSO 266]

Both plans have their benefits. USHSRA plan is good for quick access to major cities around the country, but FRA's plan serves more communities. It would be nice if both could work together by using the 90-110 mph trains to bring passengers to the major city hubs for intercity 200 mph. Unfortunately cost major $$ and a lot of dedication, if the rest of the country is on board with the idea; I don't see why not.

[oltmannd]

BT CPSO 266

I am confused, The US High Speed Rail Association has a 3 phase plan to have complete 200 mph + train routes to start from scratch.

http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html

Now President Obama said he just wants to upgrade several existing freight routes to 90-110 mph. I live in Western Pa. Obama's plan will serve more communities, but the USHSRA will go strait from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh.

I am confused to what exactly the plan is.  

The US High Speed Rail Association isn't much more than a lobbying group that draws lines on a map. The only thing close to an official plan is the US gov't map of "designated high speed corridors" (you can find it at the FRA web site). This isn't much more than a collection of lines on a map that Congress had some input drawing. None have much Federal funding beyond studies. Some states and groups of states have drawn their own lines on maps. Some of these have gotten a bit past just doing studies. (Amtrak's Harrisburg Line and the North Carolina RR are the most notable) Most of these are based on 90-110 mph improvements to existing lines to operate diesel hauled trains. California is the most notable exception with their true electrified HSR proposal. Now, add to this the Obama admins proposal to award $8B to get some of these "lines on the map" into actual operation. As Blue Streak has noted, it will only fund a small percentage of the applications that have been made by the states to get it. If I remember right, the winners will be announced coincident with the State of the Union address.

[blue streak 1]

BT CPSO 266

I am confused, The US High Speed Rail Association has a 3 phase plan to have complete 200 mph + train routes to start from scratch

I believe we are all confused. $64B in proposals and only $8B available. An if all proposals were started there would not be enough manufacturing facilities to build all the equipment and maybe even the steel for the ROW and track? Hopefully by late FEB the US DOT will have a prioority list??

 

 

[BT CPSO 266]

tomikawaTT

According to your governor, the plan can be summed up as, "A pox on both their houses."  He has come out in opposition of ANY HSR project that will cost Pennsylvania taxpayer dollars.

There's a man who will probably get re-elected!

Chuck

This is Governor Rendell's last year, he has not been very popular with Pennsylvanians.

[tomikawaTT]

According to your governor, the plan can be summed up as, "A pox on both their houses."  He has come out in opposition of ANY HSR project that will cost Pennsylvania taxpayer dollars.

There's a man who will probably get re-elected!

Chuck

[BT CPSO 266]

I am confused, The US High Speed Rail Association has a 3 phase plan to have complete 200 mph + train routes to start from scratch.

http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html

Now President Obama said he just wants to upgrade several existing freight routes to 90-110 mph. I live in Western Pa. Obama's plan will serve more communities, but the USHSRA will go strait from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh.

I am confused to what exactly the plan is.