http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267278292
Click on the link titled "Amtrak Ready with Big Plans for 2010"
Does this mean they are going to purchase more Superliner cars?
Will
Amtrak does need new cars and it they probably will need more then a few hundred so this is a start I guess. As for the rest, incremental improvements and not a whole lot so far with the stimulus funds. Sure would be nice to see a new high speed line put into operation from point A to point B somewhere outside of the Northeast.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmanndSounds more like Amtrak is finally getting to the business of taking a cold, hard look at the LD trains. The press release mentions the 5 that they are looking at. My hunch would be that the existing Superliner fleet is more than sufficient for Amtrak's needs if they can keep current with rebuilds. No need to throw good money after bad there by replacing perfectly good, if sometimes threadbare, equipment. Some higher capacity cars for the NEC would be a good thing, though. Would help Amtrak stay with existing train capacity at stations - DC Union Station and NY Penn, in particular. Cascading the Amfleet cars to new non-NEC corridor service would work well.
I hope Amtrak isn't going to waste more money on LD services.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Amtrak should order new low-level equipment to replace ALL Amfleet cars. The old ones could me cut in half, have new trucks and vestibules, etc., added and sold to Chicagoland. Them guys will ride anything and be happy about it. A little more TLC (better maintenance) will keep the Superliners in service for quite a while. Hard to do when so many of them are bad-ordered in Bear and Beech Grove. Does Amtrak make any money chartering their equipment? I'd rather see it in its intended service, including shopping, rather than pulling some "Thomas the Tank Engine Foamers" around. Amtrak was able to "spare" a P40 (?) to pull the silly Disney train around, and other publicity gigs, and is looking to buy new engines? Priorities, Joe!
Actually, the Disney train had two engines, and I see nothing wrong with Amtrak running charter service, or with engaging in an activity that puts them in the public eye among tens of thousands of potential riders.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
BNSFwatcher Does Amtrak make any money chartering their equipment? I'd rather see it in its intended service, including shopping, rather than pulling some "Thomas the Tank Engine Foamers" around. Amtrak was able to "spare" a P40 (?) to pull the silly Disney train around, and other publicity gigs, and is looking to buy new engines? Priorities, Joe!
If priced correctly, charters are one area where Amtrak actually can turn a profit. Even without charters, though, there has been a complete lack of numbers of equipment for existing service and protection of that service. With all the demands placed upon Amtrak for route studies, and the need to rebuild existing equipment, plus possible alterations to existing LD services (sorry Don, don't look for discontinuances) the need for additonal equipment becomes quite evident.
On the power side, the P42's are very old, older in fact than a lot of F units when they were retired, and the technology, while fine 17 years ago, could stand replacement with locomotives which are even more fuel efficient.
Amtrak needs new equipment, period. A recent article in USA Today indicates that the traveling public is disgusted with the overall hassle and privacy invasions required for air travel, and that, once again they are turning to other forms of transportation, notably automobiles and trains. And as one person noted, driving in a car will eventually get old, by reason of cost and hassle, so those folks will look toward Amtrak as well.
I feel that the only reason, in many instances, why Amtrak's ridership doesn't grow more is that the lack of equipment places a cap on it. Yes, new equipment is a definite need, in all areas of the operation.
4merroad4man BNSFwatcher Does Amtrak make any money chartering their equipment? I'd rather see it in its intended service, including shopping, rather than pulling some "Thomas the Tank Engine Foamers" around. Amtrak was able to "spare" a P40 (?) to pull the silly Disney train around, and other publicity gigs, and is looking to buy new engines? Priorities, Joe! If priced correctly, charters are one area where Amtrak actually can turn a profit. Even without charters, though, there has been a complete lack of numbers of equipment for existing service and protection of that service. With all the demands placed upon Amtrak for route studies, and the need to rebuild existing equipment, plus possible alterations to existing LD services (sorry Don, don't look for discontinuances) the need for additonal equipment becomes quite evident. On the power side, the P42's are very old, older in fact than a lot of F units when they were retired, and the technology, while fine 17 years ago, could stand replacement with locomotives which are even more fuel efficient. Amtrak needs new equipment, period. A recent article in USA Today indicates that the traveling public is disgusted with the overall hassle and privacy invasions required for air travel, and that, once again they are turning to other forms of transportation, notably automobiles and trains. And as one person noted, driving in a car will eventually get old, by reason of cost and hassle, so those folks will look toward Amtrak as well. I feel that the only reason, in many instances, why Amtrak's ridership doesn't grow more is that the lack of equipment places a cap on it. Yes, new equipment is a definite need, in all areas of the operation.
Last year I took the train from Taylor to Dallas three times. I was staying in Dallas for a concert, so taking the train was feasible way to get there and back. However, with only one train a day north and south, I am taking a risk when I take the Texas Eagle. If the southbound train is very late, I will get home very late. Or if it is does not run because of a derailment, lets say, I am out of luck unless Amtrak substitutes a bus. There is no commercial transport option to Taylor. In the future I plan to go from Temple as opposed to Taylor. Temple at least has one bus to and from Dallas, although it connects through Waco, and it takes a long time.
The key to expanded use of passenger rail in Texas is frequent, dependable, economical, safe, etc. trains. Anything less than three trains a day is not going to work. It does not give potential passengers enough flexibility in their travel planning. In addition, the running time from San Antonio to Dallas, for example, would have to be reduced to make it comparable to other surface transport options. As it is, the train takes too long.
Running long distance trains, which are used by few people, takes the policy maker's eyes off the ball. Instead of fussing about trains that carry very few passengers, whilst eating up a disproportionate amount of Amtrak's expenses, the emphasis should be on improved train services in relatively short, high density corridors, like San Antonio to DFW.
I am taking the Eagle to San Diego next week. I love to travel by train, especially given that I can afford to go first class. Ah, the rewards of working hard for more than 45 years and being a cheapskate every step of the way. But I would be the first to vote to discontinue the Eagle if it meant we could upgrade the schedule from Oklahoma City to Fort Worth and San Antonio to include three or more trains a day. Doing so would not only protect the jobs of Amtrak's employees in Texas, it would probably allow for an expansion of jobs.
Phoebe Vet Actually, the Disney train had two engines, and I see nothing wrong with Amtrak running charter service, or with engaging in an activity that puts them in the public eye among tens of thousands of potential riders.
Every time you post a picture to this website without sizing it properly, you distort the view for subsequent users. You should speak to the webmaster if you believe the problem lies with Trains. Most other people don't see to have this problem. By the way, I like most of your pictures.
4merroad4manand the need to rebuild existing equipment, plus possible alterations to existing LD services (sorry Don, don't look for discontinuances) the need for additonal equipment becomes quite evident.
4merroad4manIf priced correctly, charters are one area where Amtrak actually can turn a profit.
4merroad4manAmtrak needs new equipment, period. A recent article in USA Today indicates that the traveling public is disgusted with the overall hassle and privacy invasions required for air travel, and that, once again they are turning to other forms of transportation, notably automobiles and trains. And as one person noted, driving in a car will eventually get old, by reason of cost and hassle, so those folks will look toward Amtrak as well.
Along with charters, it is an opportunity for Amtrak, but I suspect it will be missed because of the lack of vision and leadership there. sam1 is very correct; the dilution of scarce resources on a very thin LD network (infrequent, slow, etc.) takes away from developing a corridor-based system.
Sam1Every time you post a picture to this website without sizing it properly, you distort the view for subsequent users. You should speak to the webmaster if you believe the problem lies with Trains. Most other people don't see to have this problem. By the way, I like most of your pictures.
I like Phoebe Vets pics also. I wondered though if there is something I'm missing about sizing? All the pictures are already on websites.
Sam:
Thank you for the compliment. They don't distort the forum on my computer, it just resizes them to fit with a box on top to show it full size in another window if desired.
Is anyone else in here having the problem Sam is having?
Phoebe VetSam: Thank you for the compliment. They don't distort the forum on my computer, it just resizes them to fit with a box on top to show it full size in another window if desired. Is anyone else in here having the problem Sam is having?
It's happened on mine a few times but not just for pics, but everything gets narrowed. Your pic shows up with a box saying it was resized to fit and click to see it in glorious full-size in another window. Great pic, BTW! Yours? If so, how do you post your own? Do you upload to Flickr or something?
Yes, I took the picture when the train was at the North Carolina Transportation Museum in Spencer, NC. I have quite a few pictures of that train, inside and out.
I upload them to Photobucket. Most of the pictures I post are mine, but some of the old Lackawanna and D&H pictures are not. When a photographer has put his name on a photo, I always make sure not to crop it out. That's why some of the old pictures have descriptions in the image. It's because the photographer's name is in the description, therefor I won't crop it.
Phoebe VetActually, the Disney train had two engines, and I see nothing wrong with Amtrak running charter service, or with engaging in an activity that puts them in the public eye among tens of thousands of potential riders.
The announcement about long distance cars may refer to a previous one calling for more Viewliner-type cars (for Florida services?) and baggage cars. I don't recall anything about Superliners except for repairing existing cars. No one else has posted anything more definitive.
wholemanhttp://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267278292 Click on the link titled "Amtrak Ready with Big Plans for 2010" Does this mean they are going to purchase more Superliner cars?
The Midwest doesn't need being the step-child. Keep the Amfleet in the East, rebuild inexpensively, add tilting suspension and push-pull control, refurbish or replace the interiors and mechanicals, and bracket with new 150-mph electrics. You'll ride anything too; and this is a way to upgrade NEC Regional services.
You would cut the bodies in half? How would that work? This seems like an awfully expensive and radical rebuild just to get new low-level(?) equipment elsewhere.
Even with the wide-open spaces in the Midwest, there are enough curves for new Talgos to make a difference on most existing and potential routes as well as afford easier boarding, even if we have to buy them ourselves, and Wisconsin already put in an order. Capacity and train length aren't issues in most cases, so double-deck equipment such as a California car isn't needed as much as the tilting capability. Ironically, the Hiawatha service is the one instance in the Midwest where higher capacity equipment would be desirable in the peaks due to present limited route capacity and demand for both Metra and Amtrak services.
BNSFwatcherAmtrak should order new low-level equipment to replace ALL Amfleet cars. The old ones could me cut in half, have new trucks and vestibules, etc., added and sold to Chicagoland. Them guys will ride anything and be happy about it. A little more TLC (better maintenance) will keep the Superliners in service for quite a while. Hard to do when so many of them are bad-ordered in Bear and Beech Grove. Does Amtrak make any money chartering their equipment? I'd rather see it in its intended service, including shopping, rather than pulling some "Thomas the Tank Engine Foamers" around. Amtrak was able to "spare" a P40 (?) to pull the silly Disney train around, and other publicity gigs, and is looking to buy new engines? Priorities, Joe!
HarveyK400The Midwest doesn't need being the step-child. Keep the Amfleet in the East, rebuild inexpensively, add tilting suspension and push-pull control, refurbish or replace the interiors and mechanicals, and bracket with new 150-mph electrics. You'll ride anything too; and this is a way to upgrade NEC Regional services.
The issue of capacity at Penn and Union Stations, I assume meaning the platform length, leads me to ask how long? How in the heck are Florida trains handled? Also, what are the lengths of non-Acela corridor trains and the number and proportion of standees?
OH, VA & NC may put up with hand-me-downs as a stop-gap measure; but that won't justify rebuilding for a significant extension of service life. Why should the NEC get new equipment because it better suits the needs of the service while the Midwest and elsewhere are obliged to accept less-than-appropriate hand-me-downs just because they are "serviceable?" Amfleet also would be "serviceable" on the NEC for which they were intended.
If the proposed Midwestern routes, both new and upgrades of existing are state funded, then taking the refurbished Metroshells is unacceptable. Since they were merely upgrades of Silverliner commuter stock, east coast specific (PRR), and never very well suited for a ride longer than 100 miles or so, perhaps they should remain "at home."
HarveyK400Why should the NEC get new equipment because it better suits the needs of the service while the Midwest and elsewhere are obliged to accept less-than-appropriate hand-me-downs just because they are "serviceable?
schlimmSince they were merely upgrades of Silverliner commuter stock, east coast specific (PRR), and never very well suited for a ride longer than 100 miles or so, perhaps they should remain "at home."
The lineage was through Budd: Silverliner (Pioneer III) > Metroliner > Amfleet. Of course they have changed a good deal over the years but my experience with them in the Midwest was less than great.
schlimmThe lineage was through Budd: Silverliner (Pioneer III) > Metroliner > Amfleet. Of course they have changed a good deal over the years but my experience with them in the Midwest was less than great.
From what I've read, they share much engineering as well as a similar appearance. And we are not talking only about ride, but the ambiance. Not very pleasant to be confined to one.
My experience with Amfleet was pretty good as well. Is this the same as not great, or just the high end of "not great" according to schlimm (that a TV show)? I've ridden Amfleet long distance (Cardinal, WAS-CHI; Floridian, OCA-CHI) and on Midwest corridor trains.
The questions I have regarding Amfleet are not only the Midwest low-level boarding and the need for tilting; but the possible costs of rebuilding for ADA and FRA compliance along with replacing components nearing the end of their service life. The stainless steel Amfleet shells should last well beyond the life of a rebuild. Amfleet trucks, designed for at least 120 mph on the NEC, have a more limited life and could be replaced with ones designed or off the shelf for higher speed and with tilting to match the performance of Acela.
Faster trains would reduce the time differential between services and increase effective corridor capacity. Or is it more important to Amtrak to move fewer people at premium fares?
While high-capacity double-deck cars may be more efficient and desirable on some NEC runs, wouldn't single-level cars allow additional trains that are more than half full, a decent load, for more frequent services or serve new markets such as Norfolk, Roanoke, Delmar Peninsula, Eastern Pensylvania, Long Island, or Cape Cod?
oltmanndschlimmThe lineage was through Budd: Silverliner (Pioneer III) > Metroliner > Amfleet. Of course they have changed a good deal over the years but my experience with them in the Midwest was less than great. HUGE differences! For starters, Amfleet has much, much less unsprung weight. No traction motors! About the only thing the same between a Silverliner/Arrow and a Amfleet car is they were built by Budd. My experience with them in Metroliner service and elsewhere in the east has been pretty good. I've ridden them >10,000 miles. I actually measured the ride quality of them on the NEC and compared to Conrail's business car fleet on class 4 and 5 track. The ride quality was equivalent. If there was no station capacity issue on the NEC, I'd say leave them there, at least until the catenary on the south end is rebuilt, and buy new for elsewhere. But there is, and that changes things.
If all NEC trains are reserved, then I have to wonder what the numbers are of refused or diverted reservation requests by train.
oltmannd ...There are few Amtrak standees because Amtrak service on the NEC is all reserved.
...There are few Amtrak standees because Amtrak service on the NEC is all reserved.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.