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Eastbound Empire Builders, Jan 2 and 3

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  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
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Posted by jrbernier on Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:04 PM

   These are problems that railroads suffered even back in the 'glory days'.  I worked for the CB&Q(late 60's) and we could easily expect the Eastbound Empire Builder or North Coast Limited to be 4-5 hours late into St Paul, MN due to bad weather.  Sometimes they would even be 'frozen up'(even though they were running 'heater cars' in the consist).  North Dakota winters can be brutal.  Usually the time keeping was pretty good it there was no blizzard weather out west.

  As for as 'low' hanging connections, the steam pipe connections were about the lowest thing on those old passenger trains.  Those overhead 'power' lines above the vestibule door provided lighting current - no heating was electrical back then.

  As far as freight trains, the GN(and BN) used air repeater cars in frigid winter weather to keep air back in the train.  If there was no air repeater cars, train length was reduced(per train order or special instructions).  Current DPU consists provide another set of air compressors. 

  I have heard of ice being thrown up and breaking the train line connection,  but have not seen MU or HEP connection issues(other than trying to plug them in when snow & ice is in the way).  The bottom line is that winter in the high plains can be brutal!

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, January 6, 2010 7:56 AM

blue streak 1

Next the freight train problems -- Reading the Trains News wire there seems to be many problems with the brake lines freezing. Can this be because locomotives are so far from some cars? If so then maybe more DP setups need implementing?  So instead of a 3 front 2 rear distribution maybe a 2 - 1 -1 -1 -1 would be required. Some present DPU setups allow this.  I know it is more time consuming to get power in place but that might prevent freezing and train stalls.

Another factor may be that the moisture separators on the locos are not working as well as they should.

Back in the day, crews used to introduce 'alcohol' into the air brake compressors for is distribution through the braking train line.  Alcohol has a deteriorating effect on rubber components and today's railroads have implemented rules against using alcohol.  The reality is that is doesn't take vary much moisture to either freeze the trainline or render a air brake valve inoperative on cars thus creating isolated problems of stuck brakes on a moving train.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 10:10 AM

These problems make me wonder--- How did the RRs in the 1940s and 1950s make their passenger equipment so they could take these extreme cold weather events. I know that there was an electrical  connection between cars inside the passageway bellows to provide electrical if the axel generation system failed on any car. This as a difference from the way HEP cables that hang down below the car body line. Also the train control and sometimes the engine control 27 point connectors hang down as well. Maybe it is time for these cables to have an alternate connection location high up on the end bulkhead to prevent snagging these cables on snow and ice.

I do know that ACELA and some European train sets already do this. This high bulkhead connection may need only be done if there is foul weather forecast for a specific route.

Next the freight train problems -- Reading the Trains News wire there seems to be many problems with the brake lines freezing. Can this be because locomotives are so far from some cars? If so then maybe more DP setups need implementing?  So instead of a 3 front 2 rear distribution maybe a 2 - 1 -1 -1 -1 would be required. Some present DPU setups allow this.  I know it is more time consuming to get power in place but that might prevent freezing and train stalls.

Another factor may be that the moisture separators on the locos are not working as well as they should.

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    May 2003
  • From: US
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 8:17 AM

NKP guy

      Although you didn't ask for my advice (that's part of the fun of forum participation!) I'll offer it anyway, based upon hard-learned lessons over the years.  Let me say at the outset that the practice of holding trains at Chicago makes sense but we sure hate its effect in Cleveland and other such down-the-line cities because it makes us wait in the middle of the night wondering where our warm berth is and trying to placate an enraged spouse who is invoking the name of the Lord that she will never again take Amtrak anywhere.

  

Additional, operating a Amtrak train 'out of slot' on a freight railroad creates operational issues on the freight railroad.  Despite what most people think, freight carriers do have schedules and priority in their operations....operating an Amtrak train in the wrong time slot creates all sorts of issues of priority....priority vs track curfews, priority vs Priority Freight traffic, priority vs locals working main line industries, priority vs routine track inspection and maintenance.  There are only 24 hours a day of track time and managing everyone's desire for their segments of that time is a challenging and never ending battle.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by NKP guy on Monday, January 4, 2010 2:25 PM

    Here's the Amtrak policy for your case:   If your Empire Builder is late into Chicago, Amtrak will: 1. hold the eastbound trains (Lake Shore? Capitol?) until your late train arrives; or, 2. if your connection can't be made you'll be put up at a Chicago hotel overnight with a small food allowance.  Does that answer your question?  Also, today the #8's when I looked at them status-wise were running only some 40 to 50 minutes late, which means passengers transferring in Chicago will easily make their trains.

   Although you didn't ask for my advice (that's part of the fun of forum participation!) I'll offer it anyway, based upon hard-learned lessons over the years.  Let me say at the outset that the practice of holding trains at Chicago makes sense but we sure hate its effect in Cleveland and other such down-the-line cities because it makes us wait in the middle of the night wondering where our warm berth is and trying to placate an enraged spouse who is invoking the name of the Lord that she will never again take Amtrak anywhere.

   It is very, very generous of Amtrak to put passengers up in a Chicago hotel.  In my experience these are fine near-North area hotels and offer a delayed traveler a pleasant end to an often stressful day.  The problem here, however, is that the hotel will expect one to check out at noon or so the following day and one has tickets for a train that departs many hours later.  One's luggage can be stored at the hotel's trunk room or at Union Station, leaving one free to enjoy the city for afternoon and early evening.

   Amtrak will put you on the next day's train in coach.  The problem for people with rooms is that rooms may very well be sold out on the next day's train.  You'll get your accommodation charge refunded, but you'll ride east all night long and the following day in a coach. (Did I mention the accompanying spouse sitting next to one?)

   Because I do use bedrooms or roomettes on these trains my solution is not to have any stress in my Chicago transfer at all.   I simply plan to spend the night in Chicago in the first place, in a hotel of my choice.  This way, when the train is late, no matter how late, I don't care.  I enjoy again the magnificent city of Chicago and the following day continue my journey, wondering how it's going on yesterday's connecting train for the couple in coach.

 

 

   

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa
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Posted by conrailman on Sunday, January 3, 2010 7:24 PM

Weather, Very Cold out West.

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Eastbound Empire Builders, Jan 2 and 3
Posted by DavidBragdon on Sunday, January 3, 2010 6:53 PM

Anyone know why the eastbound 8-28 which was to have arrived in Chicago Saturday afternoon did not get there until Sunday afternoon, about 20 hours late?  Empire Builders have generally been 4-5 hours late the past week, which is very unusual for a train which is normally quite punctual. Can anyone tell me what is going on, and what happens to passengers who need to connect at Chicago for trains to the east coast (which I need to do next week)? Thanks.

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