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Siemens-built AMTRAK Airo vs. VIA Rail Vantage cars

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Siemens-built AMTRAK Airo vs. VIA Rail Vantage cars
Posted by Warren J on Sunday, October 15, 2023 4:27 PM

These two Siemens rail car models appear to be similar but are made for two different owners.  Does anyone know how they are similar and yet different?  A Canadian friend just swoons over her recent rips in Vantage cars between Montreal and Ottawa.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, October 16, 2023 5:16 PM

Vantage?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 17, 2023 10:27 AM

"Vantage" and "Venture" do sound somewhat similar.

corpo.viarail.ca/en/projects-infrastructure/train-fleet/corridor-fleet

(It would have been quicker to Google it, but you needed to know the answer before you could...)

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Posted by D.Carleton on Tuesday, October 17, 2023 12:36 PM

Ah. Well that's an iron horse of a different color. For all intents and purposes all Venture production and preproduction shells are the same over the run of the past seven years. The outfitting of the shell is dependent on the customer. As one of my handlers told me years ago when I was on the shop floor, "We will build whatever the customer asks for." Some cars have only two exterior doors so the hole for the unused door is blanked over. Some have high density seating which leaves some seats not aligned with a window. The most pronounced derivation is the cab car which is still the same shell but with a Charger cab spliced into one end.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 17, 2023 2:23 PM

D.Carleton
Ah. Well that's an iron horse of a different color. For all intents and purposes all Venture production and preproduction shells are the same over the run of the past seven years. The outfitting of the shell is dependent on the customer. As one of my handlers told me years ago when I was on the shop floor, "We will build whatever the customer asks for." Some cars have only two exterior doors so the hole for the unused door is blanked over. Some have high density seating which leaves some seats not aligned with a window. The most pronounced derivation is the cab car which is still the same shell but with a Charger cab spliced into one end.

Not Ford's - we will make it any color you want, so long as it is BLACK!

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Posted by Warren J on Tuesday, October 17, 2023 7:42 PM

My deepest apologies!!  Those VIA Rail cars are Venture-branded and not Vantage.  I must have misunderstood my source.  The AMTRAK cars are Airo by Siemens.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, October 18, 2023 7:15 AM

Warren J
My deepest apologies!!  Those VIA Rail cars are Venture-branded and not Vantage.  I must have misunderstood my source.  The AMTRAK cars are Airo by Siemens.

Just as the new Acela set are part of Alstom's Avelia family (if they're ever delivered) the Airo sets are the customer's branding of their Venture trainsets. Mechanically they are the same.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:55 AM

If I'm not mistaken, what the OP was asking about had nothing to do with the carbody structure; it had to do with the installed amenities and service level provided in the trains.  I will be highly interested to read about them.

The idea of a consistent 'shell' structure used in different applications is what I recall CAF touting to an even higher degree in the Horizon or Viewliner or whatever you call them cars.  There, not only was the shell given different fenestration and door openings as desired, but the interior components were modular to facilitate both manufacture to design, and subsequent conversion if desired.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Thursday, October 19, 2023 10:43 AM

Overmod
If I'm not mistaken, what the OP was asking about had nothing to do with the carbody structure; it had to do with the installed amenities and service level provided in the trains.  I will be highly interested to read about them.

The current Amfleet coach fleet has either 72 or 62 seats. Venture coaches delivered to California have 68 seats, not including the cab car. IDOT cars are 68 or 49. I suspect Amtrak will mirror the IDOT sets in that regard. Amfleet has two recirculating chemical toilets. Venture has one freshwater toilet and no provision in the shell for a second.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, October 19, 2023 6:09 PM

I don't like the new paint scheme on the Airo trains.   I like the blue but the rest could have been done better.    I do like the new Wisconsin and Southern paint scheme............that looks nice.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Friday, October 20, 2023 4:00 AM

CMStPnP
I don't like the new paint scheme on the Airo trains.   I like the blue but the rest could have been done better.    I do like the new Wisconsin and Southern paint scheme............that looks nice.

Frankly, I'm a stainless steel purist; it should be allowed to gleam in all its 301L austenetic brilliance. What is seen on all Venture coaches is a vinyl wrap. Eventually, as with all political footballs that are public transit agencies, austerity periods will come and that wrap will be minimized/eliminated until it gets seedy enough to warrant complaint. At which point an "artist" will be commissioned (at outrageous cost) to design a new wrap that "captures the heart and spirit of social consciousness" or whatever virtue signaling is cause celebre at that point.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 20, 2023 3:32 PM

D.Carleton
Frankly, I'm a stainless steel purist; it should be allowed to gleam in all its 301L austenetic brilliance. What is seen on all Venture coaches is a vinyl wrap. Eventually, as with all political footballs that are public transit agencies, austerity periods will come and that wrap will be minimized/eliminated until it gets seedy enough to warrant complaint. At which point an "artist" will be commissioned (at outrageous cost) to design a new wrap that "captures the heart and spirit of social consciousness" or whatever virtue signaling is cause celebre at that point.

They put a wrap over a stainless steel skin?   Geez.

Rocks, Ice, etc are going to mess that up.     They should have stuck with the window band thingy.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Friday, October 20, 2023 6:33 PM

CMStPnP
They should have stuck with the window band thingy.

The idea is the vinyl wrap is cheaper than paint, can be fixed with a patch and can change with whatever the whim of the operator. I do believe, however, that austerity will inevitably come during the life of these vehicles and a "simplified" application of a window band will be en vogue.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, October 21, 2023 8:42 AM

D.Carleton

 

 
CMStPnP
I don't like the new paint scheme on the Airo trains.   I like the blue but the rest could have been done better.    I do like the new Wisconsin and Southern paint scheme............that looks nice.

 

Frankly, I'm a stainless steel purist; it should be allowed to gleam in all its 301L austenetic brilliance. What is seen on all Venture coaches is a vinyl wrap. Eventually, as with all political footballs that are public transit agencies, austerity periods will come and that wrap will be minimized/eliminated until it gets seedy enough to warrant complaint. At which point an "artist" will be commissioned (at outrageous cost) to design a new wrap that "captures the heart and spirit of social consciousness" or whatever virtue signaling is cause celebre at that point.

 

 

Gee wilikers, I guess someone is a rightist whiner.

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