I have exchanged EMails with Arun Rao, he is a really nice and polite person and responded to each when he was at WisDOT, interesting he moved to Amtrak and is in charge of network development now. When at WisDOT he was very informed on the rail routes available and costs involved as well as the empty rights of way without track. Also, interesting is outlined in the below the desire to use the Northwest exit from Milwaukee for Milwaukee to Green Bay service. Originally thought with Amtraks map and verbal comments about a station in Pewaukee they were going to choose Duplainville to switch to CN. Reads like they have decided using the NW exit from Milwaukee would be faster.
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2023/05/26/wisconsin-planning-passenger-trains-to-green-bay-madison/
When is the second CHI-StP train starting service? I had heard Fall, 2023.
charlie hebdo When is the second CHI-StP train starting service? I had heard Fall, 2023.
That was the target but to be fair they also stated at the time it was based on what Amtrak told them and Amtrak based it on new equipment availability not on the willingness of CP to host the train. So if they push back to 2024, that would be the reason. I have not heard of anything recently.
Back in the day there were FIVE featured trains each way each day between the Twin Cities and Chicago, with a host of secondary schedules making the same run. The times they do change.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I wonder how many scheduled flights there are between the two metro areas plus intermediate cities today?
Gramp I wonder how many scheduled flights there are between the two metro areas plus intermediate cities today?
They should do a study but what I found really interesting about riding the Chicago to Milwaukee service is that almost everyone getting on at the Airport station is not an airline traveler but is using the station as a close in suburban / South Milwaukee type stop and have their cars in the parking lot. You can tell by seeing how many people use the shuttle between the station and the airline terminal at train time (almost nobody).
BaltACDBack in the day there were FIVE featured trains each way each day between the Twin Cities and Chicago, with a host of secondary schedules making the same run. The times they do change.
Amtraks current agreement with CPKC is for three Chicago to Twin Citoes frequencies I believe. So they can add a frequency without paying for more of the horrendous track capacity expansion costs. I also think that is why it is initially costing them so much to get started. The costs of new or rehabbed track that avoids the Milwaukee Amtrak Depot and the other part is the new switches and track they are installing in Minnesota so they can switch and not interfere with Amtrak schedules. Eventually the plan is to purchase most of the Milwaukee to Chicago line from CPKC and move the CPKC trains over to UP. Apparently, UP is OK with this because they have not said a peep so far.
Also, interesting is prior to the Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul or whatever it was called back then building their own Chicago to Milwaukee mainline, they and C&NW shared the same track between those cities.
BaltACD Back in the day there were FIVE featured trains each way each day between the Twin Cities and Chicago, with a host of secondary schedules making the same run. The times they do change.
Before interstates, probably more than five naned trains: CNW (1); MILW ((4); CB&Q (~4).
charlie hebdo BaltACD Back in the day there were FIVE featured trains each way each day between the Twin Cities and Chicago, with a host of secondary schedules making the same run. The times they do change. Before interstates, probably more than five naned trains: CNW (1); MILW ((4); CB&Q (~4).
I was referring to the Morning & Afternoon Zephyrs & Hiawathas and the CNW's 400.
With each of the three carriers having multiple additional supporting scheduled trains.
CMStPnP Eventually the plan is to purchase most of the Milwaukee to Chicago line from CPKC and move the CPKC trains over to UP. Apparently, UP is OK with this because they have not said a peep so far.
Eventually the plan is to purchase most of the Milwaukee to Chicago line from CPKC and move the CPKC trains over to UP. Apparently, UP is OK with this because they have not said a peep so far.
That is not a reasonable assumption to make. Railroads don't usually offer their opinion, at least in public, on long-range plans with no obvious action behind them. What's the point of antagonizing the advocates and politicians behind these plans, when most of the bad ideas will wither and die all on their own?
And the planners and advocates often choose not to ask the railroads for their opinions - or ignore any negative feedback from them - because their strategy is to try to build momentum to the point where they can portray the railroad as being intransigent and unreasonable for raising "last-minute" objections. If they can get all the federal funding lined up and start getting some serious money spent, they can also appeal to the sunk cost fallacy to get approval for the "unforeseen" additional costs needed to accommodate the railroads.
It doesn't always happen this way, but often enough that you shouldn't believe or assume anything about a railroad's opinion of a project unless the railroad said it directly. (And recently: things change over time, and an expression of support at the beginning of a multi-decade project development may not mean much by the time people are ready to commit dollars.)
Dan
BACD: You are omitting the two overnighters, the CB&Q Blackhawk, with a Slumbercoach as well as Pullmans, and the CMStP&P Pioneer. Rode both.
Most trips in connection with planning for Wold-Chamerlain Airport orv its expansion -- acoustics and sound system.
daveklepperBACD: You are omitting the two overnighters, the CB&Q Blackhawk, with a Slumbercoach as well as Pullmans, and the CMStP&P Pioneer. Rode both. Most trips in connection with planning for Wold-Chamerlain Airport orv its expansion -- acoustics and sound system.
Not ommiting - just putting them among the 'other schedules' category
Their schedules were not designed for speed; they were designed to fill the sleeping hours of the night.
CMStPnP Eventually the plan is to purchase most of the Milwaukee to Chicago line from CPKC and move the CPKC trains over to UP.
Where did you read this?
AjsikWhere did you read this?
It is discussed in some of the earlier WisDOT Milwaukee to Chicago plans. I believe at some point above 10 frequencies that CPKC is going to say enough. That point is not defined anywhere. Just concerns about raising speed limits and increasing passenger train frequencies with freight trains on the same line.
I think they also brought it up in regards to Glenview complaining about frieght trains waiting to take the UP line to Bensenville and would it not be easier if the CP trains were just integrated onto the UP line traffic flow further up at Milwaukee or South of Milwaukee............which might be the real agenda for establishing Muskego Yard as a holding area. Glenview residents didn't like the freight trains waiting in Glenview apparently to use the cutoff to Bensenville apparently and sued. So WisDOT is attempting to figure out how to accomodate them prior to 10 Amtrak frequencies a day. So might be sooner then we all think. The other more expensive option I thought I read or heard was triple track the line after it crosses the border but then that third track is probably overkill.
By 2026 they stated as a goal to either start or complete what they call the "Hiawatha Sealed Corridor" . So thats the CP rail line North of METRA ownership which I suspect is North of the Wisconsin Border. They want to increase speed to 90 mph, quad gate RR crossings or median barrier crossings. That is kind of defined in the 2050 plan but is discussed in more detail in plans previous. Also they stated by 2050 they want to conform to the FRA Corridor spec which is 125 mph running. That is also in the 2050 rail plan (link below)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBlVj9u82S0k29JOFND3NpLqEgtDQgC0/view?pli=1
BaltACD daveklepper BACD: You are omitting the two overnighters, the CB&Q Blackhawk, with a Slumbercoach as well as Pullmans, and the CMStP&P Pioneer. Rode both. Most trips in connection with planning for Wold-Chamerlain Airport orv its expansion -- acoustics and sound system. Not ommiting - just putting them among the 'other schedules' category Their schedules were not designed for speed; they were designed to fill the sleeping hours of the night.
daveklepper BACD: You are omitting the two overnighters, the CB&Q Blackhawk, with a Slumbercoach as well as Pullmans, and the CMStP&P Pioneer. Rode both. Most trips in connection with planning for Wold-Chamerlain Airport orv its expansion -- acoustics and sound system.
The overnighters weren't all that much slower.
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