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Amtrak budget and National Security

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 3:07 PM

blue streak 1
It is more likely that a rouge country will disable the GPS satelites or at least reception.  Every thing will shut down especially credit card transactions at  gasoline pumps.  So, do not know what most RRs are doing but our local CPs have both Verizon satellite dishes and land lines connected.

The situation of a sunspot CME is a whole another possibility not likely but a slight possibility,

CSX had a similar 'attack' about 20 years ago.  A 'bug' virus or influenza got into the main headquarters Main Frame computer.  The 'bug' attacked the various communications links that the Main Frame had with other computer systems with which the Main Frame shared data that benefitted both systems.

The CSX Computer Aided Dispatching System was one such computer.  CADS got data such as crew names and train loading specifics from systems that operated on the Main Frame.  In turn the CADS computer sent tracking data to the Main Frame where it could be accessed by users that had terminals connected to the Main Frame.  CADS also used the communications network that the Main Frame supported to all the terminals and printers attached to it to send Train Messages and other forms of CADS data to locations in the field.  The Main Frame also supported the 'CSX Technofax' system to be used when the system printer network was down for routine weekly maintenance.

The attack on the computer to computer communications links 'busyed' them to the point that the CADS computer would crash.  Rebooting the CADS computer would allow it to operate 'normally' for 15 to 20 minutes when its comm links would get overloaded and it would crash again.  With the frequent crashing it got to the point that Train Dispatcher COULD NOT keep track of the trains on their territories and the entiere railroad ground to a halt.

The crashing started happening about 0300 or 0400 on a weekday morning.  Needless to say, the Experts, were notified and responded.  My understanding is that it took until about 1500 or 1600 for the Experts to understand WHAT was happending without a clue as to why it was happening.  At that point in time the CADS computer had its comm lines with the Main Frame diabled.

Once the comm lines were diabled it became a 'All Hands On Deck' deal will ALL Extra Board Dispatchers being called in to work to 'act' as the communications links.  Getting appropriate data off the Main Frame and manually imputting the data into the CADS system.  Train Messages were being printed out locally and then 'hand faxed' to destination, since the hand faxed messages DID NOT contain the notation 'Sent via CSX Technofax' at the bottom of the messages, by rule they had to be read back over the telephone to the Dispatcher to confirm accurate receipt.  This hodge poge of a operation continued for about 24 to 36 hours until the actual cause could be found and eliminated from the Main Frame system.

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 3:24 PM

blue streak 1

It is more likely that a rouge country will disable the GPS satelites or at least reception.  Every thing will shut down especially credit card transactions at  gasoline pumps.  So, do not know what most RRs are doing but our local CPs have both Verizon satellite dishes and land lines connected.

The situation of a sunspot CME is a whole another possibility not likely but a slight possibility,

 

What do GPS satellites have to do with credit card transactions?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 4:37 PM

Backshop

 The situation of a sunspot CME is a whole another possibility not likely but a slight possibility,

What do GPS satellites have to do with credit card transactions?

Gas pumps for one are linked to GPS time signals.  Credit csrds can only be approved with the proper time signal.  Some other CC card terminals as well but not sure where it works.

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, July 18, 2023 5:36 PM

blue streak 1

 

 
Backshop

 The situation of a sunspot CME is a whole another possibility not likely but a slight possibility,

What do GPS satellites have to do with credit card transactions?

 

 

Gas pumps for one are linked to GPS time signals.  Credit csrds can only be approved with the proper time signal.  Some other CC card terminals as well but not sure where it works.

 

4G and 5G phones need strict timing.  GPS antennas for clocks can be found and almost every cell tower.

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, July 20, 2023 11:20 AM

daveklepper

I disagree:

In the event of a really serious National Emergency, example, a cyber-attack that shuts down all airport traffic control, all effective ground transportation will be of use, Brightline as well as Amtrak, and buses.

 

 

We would be better off spending money to keep such a thing from occurring, vs spending money in case it does.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:18 PM

n012944
daveklepper

I disagree:

In the event of a really serious National Emergency, example, a cyber-attack that shuts down all airport traffic control, all effective ground transportation will be of use, Brightline as well as Amtrak, and buses.

We would be better off spending money to keep such a thing from occurring, vs spending money in case it does.

Any serious "National Emergency" that transiently affects ATC would be solved or addressed long before Amtrak could get extra trains in position, let alone for the first of those trains to begin delivering air passengers to where they could be presumably bussed or Ubered to their actual destinations.

Something more protracted, perhaps a TOT EMP strike over the continental United States, may have affected effective rail operations just as it would flight operations.  We saw at Cayce just how well Amtrak could figure out running under much less uncertain 'emergency' signal-outage conditions.  It has been established here time and time again that nothing Amtrak or a combination of regional operators could do will substitute for dispatch of aircraft to cover multiple sequential daily routes... even on the proposed expansion of the LD network it would only serve a tiny subset of destination pairs on ridiculous-even-in-emergencies time.  And that before any freight-railroad delays or increased freight priorities impaired Amtrak's ability to operate equipment.

One place that railroads were supposed to make a positive difference was in rapid response to weather-required evacuation.  As I recall, part of the response to Rita, so soon after Katrina, was to use various trainsets including Amtrak equipment as a shuttle "out of harm's way".  The logistics didn't work particularly well, then, with both high political motivation and several days' lead time -- I can't really imagine the situation is improved now, or that it is particularly amenable to improvement without enormous capital and staff outlays for events that may never occur, and for which any response would be nearly laughable in magnitude of importance.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 20, 2023 4:18 PM

Amtrak doesn't have enough equipment to operate all their currently scheduled trains with those trains traditional amount of equipment on a daily basis.  The thought of throwing together additional equipment and crews as the answer to any form of emergency is totally ludicrous at this point in time.  Maybe at some point in time when Amtrak has a surplus of both equipment and crews they can be a emergency resource - that day is not today.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, September 14, 2023 10:59 PM

Brightline will be starting scheduled service between Orlando and Miami.  170 mile in 3 hours including stops along the way.

Less than 60 MPH between the points is not high speed rail by any stretch of anybodies imagination.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, September 15, 2023 8:03 AM

In an emergency, non-absolutely-essential regular service would be suspended to cover the emergency.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 15, 2023 7:54 PM

BaltACD
Brightline will be starting scheduled service between Orlando and Miami.  170 mile in 3 hours including stops along the way.  Less than 60 MPH between the points is not high speed rail by any stretch of anybody's imagination.

Factor in deceleration, acceleration, and station dwell and the numbers don't look as bad.  Much of the current FEC joint trackage still has speed restrictions, a couple of which are severe: look at the timings on the new section between Orlando and the first scheduled stop after the train turns south for a better idea of sustainable operating speed.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, September 15, 2023 8:52 PM

BaltACD
Brightline will be starting scheduled service between Orlando and Miami.  170 mile in 3 hours including stops along the way. Less than 60 MPH between the points is not high speed rail by any stretch of anybodies imagination.

So thats their initial schedule and plan for startup.   When you built or purchased your first house was it high speed?     So that is how I look at the project.   It is still a work in progress.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, September 15, 2023 8:52 PM

Overmod
 
BaltACD
Brightline will be starting scheduled service between Orlando and Miami.  170 mile in 3 hours including stops along the way.  Less than 60 MPH between the points is not high speed rail by any stretch of anybody's imagination. 

Factor in deceleration, acceleration, and station dwell and the numbers don't look as bad.  Much of the current FEC joint trackage still has speed restrictions, a couple of which are severe: look at the timings on the new section between Orlando and the first scheduled stop after the train turns south for a better idea of sustainable operating speed.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. IF you are advertising that you are starting HIGH SPEED RAIL and your end to end times don't even exceed the highway allowed speed limit, you have a lot of work to do.

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