American airlines is starting 2 routes to PHL airport by bus. Claiming that the passengers will clear security before boarding buses. IMO no way! Too many ways to beat the system. Would drivers be required to attend the 3 day security class that airport personnel have to attend?
American adds 2 new routes from Philadelphia — operated by a bus (msn.com)
If the passengers go from the outer airports security directly onto the bus, without the bus doors opening on the way, and arrive airside and go directly into Phily's gate concourse, where is the gap in security?
MidlandMike If the passengers go from the outer airports security directly onto the bus, without the bus doors opening on the way, and arrive airside and go directly into Phily's gate concourse, where is the gap in security?
It seems like a good concept. It is probably more efficient with one bus driver vs two pilots plus at least one flight attendant. Also it is probably more environmentally friendly, especially if EVs are used.
It's a security non-starter, and I'm surprised it has even been entertained.
Are there going to be black Suburbans with armed escort to be sure no one opens the doors as the bus makes its way to and from the... well, it can't be the terminal; it will have to be some area inside the security perimeter, probably not at gate level.
Secure lock of the bus access doors? I have three little words for that: Triangle Shirtwaist Factory.
Remote unlock of the doors in accidents? Terrorists are imaginative.
What really solves this is the old '60s combination of bus and jetway, where the whole bus body rises on scissorlift directly to the boarding door, and docks at the other end directly to the secure "boarding lounge". The whole enclosed driver's cockpit is the "door" (and windshield, and CEM, and all that jazz) so there won't be any annoying little unnoticed access to or from the vehicle. Yes, multiple autonomous buses can easily 'platoon' enroute once that capability has been demonstrated.
There could be different layers of security for the door like cameras and open sensors. If there was a security gap, then they would have to go through TSA again. As far as buses on airports, shuttle buses run across taxiways between concourses at larger airports such as LAX and Chicago ORD.
OvermodIt's a security non-starter, and I'm surprised it has even been entertained.
With GPS tracking these days they will know where the bus stops and for how long and they can also install cameras on the bus monitored by security folks. I don't see an issue with it. Plus it might open up airlines to using Amtrak for trip completion.
MidlandMikeThere could be different layers of security for the door like cameras and open sensors. If there was a security gap, then they would have to go through TSA again. As far as buses on airports, shuttle buses run across taxiways between concourses at larger airports such as LAX and Chicago ORD.
I worked between two active runways at DFW when I worked for Verizon they had the former Braniff Airlines HQ building. No Homeland Security nothing, even Verizon started to get careless of where they sourced their building security..heh.
I tend to think a lot of that homeland security stuff is just a placebo for the public.
Overmod It's a security non-starter, and I'm surprised it has even been entertained. Are there going to be black Suburbans with armed escort to be sure no one opens the doors as the bus makes its way to and from the... well, it can't be the terminal; it will have to be some area inside the security perimeter, probably not at gate level. Secure lock of the bus access doors? I have three little words for that: Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. Remote unlock of the doors in accidents? Terrorists are imaginative. What really solves this is the old '60s combination of bus and jetway, where the whole bus body rises on scissorlift directly to the boarding door, and docks at the other end directly to the secure "boarding lounge". The whole enclosed driver's cockpit is the "door" (and windshield, and CEM, and all that jazz) so there won't be any annoying little unnoticed access to or from the vehicle. Yes, multiple autonomous buses can easily 'platoon' enroute once that capability has been demonstrated.
As it was initially at Dulles.
Mike: I don't recall seeing shuttle buses at ORD.
Did I mention I'm neurotic about actual security, but I hate security theatre with a passion?
There's a kinda-sorta place for it when the public sheep need a little "reassurance" that professionally-dressed and professionally-acting people are on the job. Note that this is precisely the opposite of what any practical air-marshal presence 'where it counts' would resemble...
charlie hebdoMike: I don't recall seeing shuttle buses at ORD.
I took one once, maybe about 20 years ago. I think it was with United. It was to transfer between connecting flights between councourses.
MidlandMike charlie hebdo Mike: I don't recall seeing shuttle buses at ORD. I took one once, maybe about 20 years ago. I think it was with United. It was to transfer between connecting flights between councourses.
charlie hebdo Mike: I don't recall seeing shuttle buses at ORD.
United used to have a bus that wan from the low C gates in terminal 1 to terminal 2. I do not know if it still exists.
An "expensive model collector"
All this discussion about buses shuttling between terminal buildings is cute, but has no relevance to the situation streak brought up in this thread.
If you actually read the article, the passengers would clear security at the airports for ABE or Atlantic City, and then ride by road all the way to, presumably, some secure boarding access inside PHL. It does not take a security 'expert' to recognize all the things that can go wrong with that operating model.
Charlie Hebdo, I read all about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire and escape was prevented by secure locks on all the doors so employees would not steal. You never lock anyone in even in a room. My Dad's parents were garment workers in that era so that is why I was interested to read about it. They died when he was young of TB so he never really knew them. I am sure they heard about the fire when they were working in St. Louis, and have no idea what kind of conditions they worked under.
sounds like a mess waiting to happen. I am glad I do not have to fly anywhere, can take Amtrak whenever I need to travel. My last time on a plane was 2003 flying home from San Francisco with friend. TWA had recently went down and American had taken over. Lunch in a bag taken from a box when we boarded, which was OK, but the stories I have heard about airplane travel today and all the fights is a definite turn off. When friend and I went to SF, she flew out and I took Empire Builder to Portland, spent overnight there and it happened to be their annual Rose Fest weekend so I got to see a parade and tour a Navy ship that had come up the river. Then I took Coast Starlight to SF, had to board a bus from Eugene to Klamath Falls because of track work by UP. Dad always wanted to go to Eugene as that was his first name, he was deceased already but knew he was watching me take a pic of the station sign. When we got to the train, Amtrak had kept the diner open for us traveling first class and gave us glass of wine with dinner as we had missed the wine & cheese party. I got to sit in Pacific Parlour car and bartender gave me a small bottle of wine to take with me. Could share it with my friend when we finallly got together at hotel in SF. I left 5 days before her but awesome trip west by train . We had taken many TWA Getaway tours to Europe and they always had first class service. No one will ever be able to replace them in my heart.
OvermodAll this discussion about buses shuttling between terminal buildings is cute, but has no relevance to the situation streak brought up in this thread.
I was replying to your post: "...bus makes its way to and from the... well, it can't be the terminal; it will have to be some area inside the security perimeter, probably not at gate level."
The shuttle buses I referred to presently at airports met the terminals at gates formerly used to load planes, between other still active plane gates. Gates generally have stairs between tarmac level and concourse level.
OvermodIf you actually read the article, the passengers would clear security at the airports for ABE or Atlantic City, and then ride by road all the way to, presumably, some secure boarding access inside PHL.
Exactly.
Overmod Are there going to be black Suburbans with armed escort to be sure no one opens the doors as the bus makes its way to and from the... well, it can't be the terminal; it will have to be some area inside the security perimeter, probably not at gate level.
Why not? It isn't unheard of to have a bus "flight" depart from a gate.
https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/united-landline-bus-service-denver-colorado/
It will be different to have a sterile bus coming INTO the airport. However, the airline people are smart, I bet they will figure it out. And, of course, if there is any doubt about the bus being sterile, it simply does not go into the airport and dumps its passengers outside of security.
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