Comparing the Canadian and the Super Continental

[Ulrich]

I've had the pleasure of riding the Canadian several times in the early VIA era but had never been on the Super Continental. How did these trains compare in terms of amenities, comfort, cleanliness etc?

[ghCBNS]

On my first trip west as a teen back in the early '70s......the Super Continental was long and packed with youth like myself. Most of the equipment was refurbished and there was an exMilwaukee Road 'Sceneramic' Dome. A real fun trip!!

I returned on the Canadian.....a much shorter consist with a more sedate and older 'silver & blue' haired group of passengers. The equipment was getting a bit threadbare but still clean and everything worked.

[Dayliner]

I rode the Canadian when it was still a CPR train, but never the Super Continental while CN was running it.  But I did ride the Super a few times in the early years of VIA when both trains retained most of their original equipment and, presumably, the operating practices of their orginal operators.

I didn't like the ex-MILW full-length domes on the Super Continental.  The seats were set too low to get a good view out the side, and there was no forward view at all to speak of.  I got the impression that CN ran them more as party cars than observation cars, and this was reinforced at night when the crew turned on the interior lights.  On the CP, the dome lights were usually left off at night so you could see out.

I liked CN's "Dayniter" cars, which were more of a marketing than a technical innovation.  They were upgraded coaches with fully reclining seats, leg-rests and lots of leg-room, pretty much the same at the day coaches on the Canadian.  The CN advantage was that they were marketed as a sort of "first-class" seating option, so for a very small upgrade on the fare you got treated like a sleeping car passenger with full access to the entire train, and when the cars were added to the Canadian that meant access to the rear-end obs as well.

[Overmod]

Dayliner

I liked CN's "Dayniter" cars, which were more of a marketing than a technical innovation.  They were upgraded coaches with fully reclining seats, leg-rests and lots of leg-room, pretty much the same at the day coaches on the Canadian.  The CN advantage was that they were marketed as a sort of "first-class" seating option, so for a very small upgrade on the fare you got treated like a sleeping car passenger with full access to the entire train, and when the cars were added to the Canadian that meant access to the rear-end obs as well.

In my opinion this is memorable, sensible, and notable.

I remember back in my quasi-commuting-to-Philadelphia days (this being about '73 to '75) coming across one of those cars, I remember for some reason that could be wrong that it was an ex-ACL chair car, that had the multiple-part leg rest, a bit like the ramp on a scorpion car, still folded up invisibly under each seat.  What a joy THAT was with an 'Am and cheese' sandwich and pellet-iced Coke ... and what fun to watch the other passengers as they realized what they, too, had under there to use! 

Room was carefully designed under the rear and the seat track adjusted so there was room under there for legs and feet for the passenger 'behind' (probably greater when the whole car was converted for 'nighttime')  Some sort of rudimentary side bolster panels and privacy curtains would easily give you a comfortable alternative for 'coach' density...

The key being to allow those in upgrade coach to use the 'sleeper' amenities, or at least some of them.

Concern has been expressed in other threads about certain types of passenger causing most of the problem with things like lavatory maintenance or abuse of lounge and dome facilities.  At least some of this might be addressed, or the validity of some of its less 'PC-savory' assumptions disproved or established, by extending some of the access for high-dollar sleeper-space patrons to less expensive forms of long-distance accommodation.  This becomes particularly important when recognizing that both 'sleeping' and 'preservation of quality of service' become essential on any service longer than about 15 hours for which there are 'market alternatives'...

[Dayliner]

Yep, Overmod, "that multiple part leg-rest" is exactly what I'm talking about.  It was an ingenious design and with the extended pitch between seats it meant you could get a good night's sleep in coach.  And yes, it was the access to the sleeper amenities which sold the space, at least for me.

On reflection, the CN's Dayniters were an improvement on the CP's coach seats as originally built.  If you ride the Canadian in coach now, you're riding in seats that are a vast improvement over what was installed in 1954/55, and which are much closer to the Dayniter design.  If I remember correctly, the CP seats had much lower seat backs and I don't think they reclined as far.  I'm not sure what they had for leg rests, but I don't think it was as fancy as on the Dayniters. 

I think the original coach seats on the Canadian would have been considered "deluxe" in their time, but we would probably find them cramped and uncomfortable today. 

[ghCBNS]

Here's the CN Dayniters that eventually went to VIA. Back in the early '70s when I first starting riding CN while still in school...... the Sydney to Montreal Sleeper had just been replaced by a Dayniter. I couldn't have afforded a sleeper but I could a Dayniter and always found them very quiet and comfortable compared to a standard coach.

 

 

 

 

[Dayliner]

But those colours!  How was anyone supposed to sleep??

[BaltACD]

Dayliner

But those colours!  How was anyone supposed to sleep??

With your eyes closed you only see the colors of your mind.

[ghCBNS]

Dayliner

But those colours!  How was anyone supposed to sleep?? 

You'd never notice......as they blended with the rest of the colours of the '70s!

[Electroliner 1935]

All this discussion of the CN's day-niter seats raises my question. What was the difference between them and the Santa Fe's El Capitan's seats? From Wikipedia,

http://streamlinermemories.info/SF/AustinSeatsad.jpg

[Overmod]

Electroliner 1935

What was the difference between them and the Santa Fe's El Capitan's seats?

I should inquire on RyPN what my chair-car seats were -- they were MUCH more involved than the El Cap seats.  The leg rest was in at least two sections, in skeletal aluminum with padded top, and was articulated up under she seat -- when deployed you had full support of your legs and calves right down to the footrest.  I don't remember there being a severe gap between the front edge of the seat and the legrest, either.  Back would recline a good long way, although I didn't see if it would recline all the way to align with the slope of the legrest -- it would stand to reason that it might.

I wonder if a modern version could be made in webbing with a carefully-designed folding framework, to be like Aeron chair construction when deployed and adjustable to individual preferences... with careful modern 3D 'folding mechanism' geometry, that might be adaptable to existing forms of seat construction.