At this point, would rather see an orderly shut down of the whole Amtrak system. Pay the employees their severance be it 6 years or what the contracts are. Let the states/regions set up what service they deem necessary. Get the Feds out of the people-hauling business. It's got a lot more important issues to deal with.
GrampAt this point, would rather see an orderly shut down of the whole Amtrak system. Pay the employees their severance be it 6 years or what the contracts are. Let the states/regions set up what service they deem necessary. Get the Feds out of the people-hauling business. It's got a lot more important issues to deal with.
At this point in time I DO NOT TRUST the government of the USA.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDAt this point in time I DO NOT TRUST the government of the USA.
I'll up you one. Or maybe more! I don't place a lot of trust government at any level. Some of the worst abuses occur at the state, county, and city level.
A significant portion of my career involved interacting with government regulators at the state, city, and county level. The ignorance that they displayed regarding what they supposedly were regulating was mind boggling.
I had to work many years with all levels of government in the USA as well as in foreign countries. The non-national levels in some of the foreign countries were the worse as too many of them woudn't do anything without bribes and they were all very bureaucratic. The US Fed gov. could be maddening because its personnel practises reward those who don't make mistakes so very few of its civilian employees showed any initiative. Many of the states were the same, particularly those that had unionized employees. Some of the states and many of the local governments simply had way too many incompetent employees. Some state and local governments actual weren't too bad. They were generally the low or non-unionized ones who somehow avoided having too much incompetence and were, or located within, less populated states.
Again, I think my station restaurant scheme can make the LDs worth riding again and at least break even. Sleepers would have to have charges for their incremental costs and run only in those markets where travelers are willing to pay the price, but most LDs would have an upgraded coach class, a business class. And the broad manue restaurant food would be available to all passengers, not included in the ticket prices.
LDs have been a part of American civilization, and lots would be missing if they were ended.
daveklepper Again, I think my station restaurant scheme can make the LDs worth riding again and at least break even. Sleepers would have to have charges for their incremental costs and run only in those markets where travelers are willing to pay the price, but most LDs would have an upgraded coach class, a business class. And the broad manue restaurant food would be available to all passengers, not included in the ticket prices. LDs have been a part of American civilization, and lots would be missing if they were ended.
Interestingly, the IG as per Food and Beverage Services, dated October 31, 2013, found that Amtrak could substantially reduce the cost of F&B by outsourcing it. It estimated that doing so would reduce labor costs by $51.4 to $60.5 million along with other savings.
The labor unions pushed back vigorously. If I remember correctly, Amtrak attempted to outsource F&B on the Empire Service trains between NYC and Albany, but the push back was so severe that it had to drop the effort after a few days.
As soon as Amtrak's management proposes meaningful cost reduction strategies, at least for the NEC and so-called national network, the unions run to the Congress, where they are usually able to find support to block any meaningful steps to reduce costs.
Isn't the food service on the Cascades and the Downeaster lines non-Amtrak?
Also P/O the problem on the overnight LD trains is that the staff has to be on the train for the duration of the trip. If the food service were contracted, could it be set up for the food to be rolled on to the train along with the serving people at meal times and then taken off after dinner. I remember a trip on the NYC's Cincinnati-Chicago where the diner was added at Indianapolis to serve lunch enroute to Chicago. Obviously, the switching cost was considered to be less than the savings.
JPS1 BaltACD At this point in time I DO NOT TRUST the government of the USA. I'll up you one. Or maybe more! I don't place a lot of trust government at any level. Some of the worst abuses occur at the state, county, and city level. A significant portion of my career involved interacting with government regulators at the state, city, and county level. The ignorance that they displayed regarding what they supposedly were regulating was mind boggling.
BaltACD At this point in time I DO NOT TRUST the government of the USA.
You said it!
I think most of us would be amazed at the amount of office-holders, not all of course, but many, who've never been in out in the "real world" and have never held a "real job." I think most would recognize what I mean by a real job without my going into specifics. Hell, we've got a young woman running for mayor of Rcihmond, 28 years old, who went straight from college into political staff positions for various local office holders and has no other work experience. What does she know of how the real world operates? What does she know about real people from all walks of life? I don't expect her to beat the incumbent, but you see what I mean?
Trusting the federal government? Many of us who lived through those years lost it during Vietnam. But hey, sometimes you have to trust 'em on something. They don't get it wrong all time.
Electroliner 1935 Isn't the food service on the Cascades and the Downeaster lines non-Amtrak?
I believe that you are correct. But the Cascades and the Downeaster are state supported trains. The states contract with Amtrak to operate them.
The IG's report focused on Amtrak's trains. Acccording to the report, approximately 99 percent of the loss on F&B was incurred on the long-distance trains. This is the root cause of the problem.
1. I think JPS1 brought up an important point.
Outside the NEC, Amtrak is trying to run a 21st Century railroad using 1950s ideas. A move to change Amtrak is met with opposition from unions and powerful Congressional office holders. The response to reform is that if we just spent more money, Amtrak would be a success.
2. The discussion of workers who have no real life experience reminds me of something school administrators have known: teacher colleges are often staffed and run by professional educators who have no real-world experience in actually teaching.
York1 John
York12. The discussion of workers who have no real life experience reminds me of something school administrators have known: teacher colleges are often staffed and run by professional educators who have no real-world experience in actually teaching.
So I've heard, first hand, and that would include educational theorists.
I've lost track of how many times I've been in a teachers lounge or workroom fixing a copier and overheard conversations that typically included this:
"They want us to do WHAT? WHO comes up with this ***? When was the last time they were in a classroom? Have they EVER been in a classroom? Why don't they ask US before they promulgate these stupid directives?"
You hear a lot when you're unobtrusive and blend well into the background, trust me.
Service workers make the best spies
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I've mentioned before -- the most popular person ever to visit a school is the copier repairman.
SD70Dude Service workers make the best spies
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!
York1 I've mentioned before -- the most popular person ever to visit a school is the copier repairman.
You know why? 'Cause by the time I got there all the rage had worn off, and all they felt was relief at the sight of me!
But my God, what they did to those machines! Ay-yi-yi!!
JPS1Amtrak is supposed to be a business, although its critics seem to believe it is a welfare agency.
I would argue that many of Amtrak's proponents seem to think of it as a welfare agency, as well.
JPS1 Amtrak is supposed to be a business, although its critics seem to believe it is a welfare agency.
It's supposed to be a business as much as the United States Postal Service is a business, both are supported by subsidies.
JPS1The national debt is $26.2 trillion; it is estimated to surpass $29 trillion by the end of the fiscal year. State and local government debt is another $3.1 trillion. The federal debt is 122 percent of GDP, which is approximately WWII levels; total government debt is 136 percent of GDP. Using debt financing to run little used trains, irrespective of the cause, is irresponsible.
As for this statement, you really should read what Warren Buffet has to say about the U.S. government and deficit spending. Just look up why Warren Buffet says the government will never default on debt. It might open your eyes some to the above garbage.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR As for this statement, you really should read what Warren Buffet has to say about the U.S. government and deficit spending. Just look up why Warren Buffet says the government will never default on debt. It might open your eyes some to the above garbage.
Warren Buffet's expertise is investing in marketable securities. He is not an expert on national debt. Moreover, over the last decade Warren has lost of bit of his edge. His investments have done no better than the S&P500.
No one said the U.S. would default on its debt. But it can be a burden. Ultimately, it has to be serviced one way or the other.
After WWII the U.S. was able to work down the debt. From a high of approximately 122 percent of GDP at the WWII, it was able to reduce it to approximately 25 percent of GDP by 1975. How did it do it?
Although he is no longer with us, one of the best authorities on the subject was Martin Feldstein. He studied the issue extensively and found two major drivers contributed to the reduction of the debt from the end of WWII to 1975. The first was real growth in the economy. The other was monetization of the debt, which means inflation.
As John Maynard Keynes point out, inflation is like a thief that comes in the middle of the night and steals the wealth of its citizens without their knowing it.
At some point many financial experts believe that excessive governmental debt can crowd out private debt, which can have negative consequences for the economy.
The bottom line is simple. Using debt to fund trains that carry less than 1 percent of intercity travelers is a poor financial decision irrespective of how they are funded.
There are good reasons to refocus Amtrak's funding into running trains that make sense as transportation. Amtrak's miniscule contribution to national debt is a triviality.
JPS1The bottom line is simple. Using debt to fund trains that carry less than 1 percent of intercity travelers is a poor financial decision irrespective of how they are funded.
The amount of money Amtrak gets in relation to the overall budget is miniscule, something like less than .1% if not even less than that. I also don't think it's being funded by debt so much unless it comes out of the general discretionary portion of the budget. Either way, doubling the amount of money they currently get could easily increase the percent of intercity travelers they carry. If they had the proper management and marketing to take advantage of the current situation, which they don't. We could also have done what France did with the airline bailout, restrict them to longer corridors and focus the short corridors towards rail.
The biggest deficit hog is the DoD, and they did an internal investigation(that was buried of course), that showed $125 Billion dollars in waste annually. (You can probably find it on Google). The reason it was buried was because the DoD was afraid Congress would cut their budget by said $125 Billion dollars, which they probably would've at the time. Of course they could've been smart, admitted there was a lot of waste and then turned around and funneled that money into real items, then we wouldn't have had to boost spending to the rediculous amount that Trump is giving them.
Presidents can't get anywhere on funding without the approval of both houses of congress. One problem the country has is congress often pushes for military spending the military itself doesn't want. In order for the military to get what it wants it has to accept what congress demands. The other major problem right now is the real skilled positions in the military have had much better paying job offers from the private sector. Bonuses being paid to get skilled pilots to continue their military career were amazing in recent years. Noe if the economy doesn't right itself, that won't be as much of a problem.
If the government spent a small fraction on Amtrak of what it spends on motor vehicle transportation and air travel, Amtrak would have all the subsidy it needs to run a good national system.
Governments build airports and provide air traffic control. Governments build street, roads and highways. If the government built and maintained Amtrak's infrastructure, it too could be "profitable."
Let's not abandon passenger rail. Instead, let's do like smart countries everywhere and provide ample support for this third leg of the surface transportation triad. Trains have their place in all civilized nations.
Killing off the LD trains would be a cruel blow to this country. It's the only way one can travel while relaxing and seeing the great splendor of our nation. And it's a part of our heritage.
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