Central of Georgia in Chicago???

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Central of Georgia in Chicago???
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Friday, November 15, 2019 5:57 PM

My wife just bought a jigsaw puzzle with a night-time rail scene (not a photo). It includes two passenger trains with E units, in Chicago. One is IC and the other is Central of Georgia!

Is there any scenario by which CofG passenger units would be in Chicago? Looks like maybe the 50's. Painters often work from a photo.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 15, 2019 6:22 PM

Yes, CG engines regularly powered the Seminole into Chicago. They may also have been  on the CIty of Miami. IC engines also came into Columbus, Georgia, early in the afternoon, and were turned there. I am not sure, but I think that CM engines ran through Chicago-Jacksonville. Generally, the CG engines used on these trains were painted the IC colors. You also found ACL, FEC, and CG cars, as well as the IC cars on these two trains. The equipment assigned to these trains was painted in the IC colors, no matter which road owned them.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 15, 2019 6:25 PM

Lithonia Operator
My wife just bought a jigsaw puzzle with a night-time rail scene (not a photo). It includes two passenger trains with E units. One is IC and the other is Central of Georgia!

Is there any scenario by which CofG passenger units would be in Chicago? Looks like maybe the 50's. Painters often work from a photo.

Central of Georgia was a partner with the IC in operating the Chicago-Florida trains - The Seminole and The City of Miami.

In being a partner the CofG painted several of their engines in IC colors to harmonize with the IC colors on the trains hauled.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Friday, November 15, 2019 8:41 PM

You learn something new every day. Well, I did today, for sure.

In this painting/puzzle the CoG units are painted in the normal CofG scheme. But obviously (from what you guys have educated me on) that could have happened.

Thanks guys!

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 15, 2019 11:24 PM

CG 811

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, November 16, 2019 6:42 AM

CG 811 and 812 were assigned to the "City of Miami" right up to April 30, 1971.  They were even re-lettered in the larger block style that IC started using in the late 1960's.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, November 16, 2019 8:08 AM

This an aside. I once saw an  FEC coach painted in SAL colors on an SAL train in Birmingham. I knew it was an FEC car because it had an FEC place name on it, It startled me until I realized that the SAL had bought it after the FEC was struck.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 1:02 AM

Even more amazing I think I spotted a sleeping car painted in UP Yellow and Gray Colors but stenciled for Pennsylvania Railroad on the West Coast in a photo.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 1:32 AM

A relic of the transcontinental Pullman service. New York - Chicago in The General, Chicago - LA in the City of Los Angeles.

Similarly, Silver Rapids, a PRR Budd California Zephyr car that I rode in the Penn Central "Steel Fleet" (nickname) from Croton-Harmon to Detroit!

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 6:42 AM

CMStPnP

Even more amazing I think I spotted a sleeping car painted in UP Yellow and Gray Colors but stenciled for Pennsylvania Railroad on the West Coast in a photo.

 
If my memory is correct, the Pullmans in question were a pair of 22-roomette "Inn"-series cars re-assigned to the "City of Denver" in 1956 to provide a semblance of competition to the Slumbercoaches being introduced on the "Denver Zephyr".
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 8:11 AM

From what I have seen, it was a standard practice for the cars that ran through Chicago and St, Louis to be painted in the colors of the western roads, not the colors of the eastern owning roads.

The PRR Pullmans that regularly rode over the N&W were painted in the N&W colors.

Whenever the IC "borrowed" cars, they were painted in IC colors. There was an EL car on the Panama Limited regularly; you had to look closely to see that it was not an IC car.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 10:03 AM

[quote user="Deggesty"

The PRR Pullmans that regularly rode over the N&W were painted in the N&W colors.

[/quote]

How could you tell the difference?  Both roads wore Tuscan Red.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 3:36 PM

Deggesty
From what I have seen, it was a standard practice for the cars that ran through Chicago and St, Louis to be painted in the colors of the western roads, not the colors of the eastern owning roads.

The PRR Pullmans that regularly rode over the N&W were painted in the N&W colors.

Whenever the IC "borrowed" cars, they were painted in IC colors. There was an EL car on the Panama Limited regularly; you had to look closely to see that it was not an IC car.

I recall seeing a picture of a sleeper painted up in B&O colors with SP up in the letterboard.  I have spent some time searching for it - but haven't been able to find it.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 11:48 PM

BaltACD
Deggesty From what I have seen, it was a standard practice for the cars that ran through Chicago and St, Louis to be painted in the colors of the western roads, not the colors of the eastern owning roads.

Yes, I remember seeing the B&O's National Limited coming through Cincinnati with through sleepers to St Louis where they were transferred to the MoPac's Texas Eagle (note 1) and Frisco/MKTY's Texas Special (note 2). 

(note 1)  Washington-Ft Worth 14 Rmte 4 Dbrm

(note 2)  Washington-San Antonio 14 Rmte 4 Dbrm

Also rode the PRR's Penn Texas between Richmond IN and Terre Haute and it carried through cars which also were transferred to the (4 cars) MoPac's Texas Eagle  (note 3) and (1 car) to Frisco/MKTY's Texas Special (note 4)

(note 3a) New York - Houston 10 Rmte 6 Dbrm

(note 3b) New York - San Antonio 10 Rmte 6 Dbrm

(note 3c) New York - El Paso 14 Rmte 4 Dbrm

(note 3d) Washington - Houston 10 Rmte 6 Dbrm

(note 4a)  New York - San Antonio 14 Rmte 4 Dbrm

All of the through cars had their western railroads colors.

And though not sure, I believe the CZ's through cars that alternated between the NYC and the PRR were stainless CZ cars. Likewise SanteFe and UP cars went east. Don't recall Eastern cars going west. Others may know otherwise

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 2:23 AM

Yes, PRR Siver Rapids noted earlier.  They were eastern cars going west but painted in the western railroads' colors, alternating with the western railroads' own cars.  So, on occasion, one could see PRR Aramor Yellow, and/or stainless steel, or nlue and grey cars at Sunnyside, and/or AT&SF, CB&Q, C&NW, D&RGW, MP, SP, TP, and/or WP cars.  And at Mott Haven with NYCentral cars instead of PRR.

Similarly, PRR had stainless and stainless-fluted cars for the Southerner, East Coast and West Coast Campion (even with purple letterboards for those two), Silver Meteor, Silver Star. and Silver Comet.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 6:53 AM

The practice is not necessarily an East-West issue.  Consider the Empire Builder, North Coast Limited, and Cities Streamliners.  All were western interline trains with car ownership split among the operating roads but painted in one road's colors.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Sunnyland on Monday, December 2, 2019 11:45 AM

very interesting, parents and I rode IC to FL.   Picked up by C of G somewhere, maybe Columbus, GA and then had to get off train at Jacksonville to board ACL, and another step off that train to another one at Lake Alfred, FL to our final destination of Punta Gorda.  Long haul but it was all free with Dad's pass and we didn't care, we were riding a train. Never knew C of G engines stayed on to Chi, but we were never on those trains, because of the pass. 

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Posted by Sunnyland on Monday, December 2, 2019 11:54 AM

We only rode one train out of St. Louis that had "foreign" coaches and that was Wabash (later N&W), UP and SP City of St Louis, we had the yellow coaches on train when we boarded. Train was switched to UP in KC and those yellow coaches stayed on thru Ogden over SP to San Francisco or L.A. The other trains we rode were one line all the way like B&O to DC, PRR to NYC, IC to NOLA, the train to FL was mentioned in my other post, we were shuffled around, but did stay in the IC coach to Jacksonville with C of G on the head end.

Deggesty

From what I have seen, it was a standard practice for the cars that ran through Chicago and St, Louis to be painted in the colors of the western roads, not the colors of the eastern owning roads.

The PRR Pullmans that regularly rode over the N&W were painted in the N&W colors.

Whenever the IC "borrowed" cars, they were painted in IC colors. There was an EL car on the Panama Limited regularly; you had to look closely to see that it was not an IC car.

 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, December 2, 2019 5:00 PM

The first "foreign" car I rode was an L&N coach on rhe Southern's Piedmont Limited, back when it had through coaches Washington-New Orleans. It was not at all unusual to see  N&W coaches on the Southern trains that went through Roanoke--and the diner on the Pelican was an N&W diner. The diner (Washington-Knoxville or Chattanooga) on the Tenneesean was a Southern diner.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, December 2, 2019 6:29 PM

Johnny Birmingham Special   #17 & 18 had Souther diners.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 2, 2019 6:36 PM

Deggesty
The first "foreign" car I rode was an L&N coach on rhe Southern's Piedmont Limited, back when it had through coaches Washington-New Orleans. It was not at all unusual to see  N&W coaches on the Southern trains that went through Roanoke--and the diner on the Pelican was an N&W diner. The diner (Washington-Knoxville or Chattanooga) on the Tenneesean was a Southern diner.

When I was 10 our family went from DC to Miami on the East Coast Champion.  Left DC in the late afternoon just before dinner time.  We waited on the lower level platform for the train to arrive from New York with a GG-1 on the point.  As the cars moved past our vantage point Dad pointed out the various ownership of the cars as displayed on the letterboards - PRR, RF&P, ACL and FEC all contributed cars to the service.

After dinner in the diner as we were returning to our bedoom, Dad opened the upper dutch door on one of the cars and we watched the Mars head light sweep the countryside as we proceeded through Southern Virginia or Northern North Carolina.  

Breakfast was in the diner as we were departing Jacksonville.  My thoughts were 'boy we are in Florida, Maimi can't be too far away.....WRONG.  With the FEC making stops at all the beachside communities down Florida's East Coast it was near dinner time arriving Miami; we had lunch somewhere around Melbourne.

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Posted by bo-Jack on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:13 AM

PRR sleepers were painted Tuscan Red with black roofs.  N&W sleepers for homeroad assignments were painted Tuscan Red with Brown roofs.  PRR had none in N&W color scheme, but N&W had some in PRR colors.

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 4:52 PM

The Pennsylvania cars in transcontinental service that were painted Streamliner colors in 1955 were Bedford Inn, Coatesville Inn, Buffalo Rapids, Stoney Rapids and Tippecanoe Rapids. All had gray trucks and all were repainted Tuscan Gray with black trucks before 1959, so none ever had trucks that were painted aluminum. Photos of Buffalo Rapids and Bedford Inn, both taken in 1957, show them in Yellow and Gray with gray trucks. Buffalo Rapids was painted two-tone gray from September 1950 through May 1955, when it was repainted Yellow and Gray. It was repainted Tuscan Red in June 1958. (Robert Darwin, email dated June 19, 2013)

The following comes from PENNSYLVANIA Passenger Car Painting and Lettering by Charles Blardone and Peter Tip:

Daily service started March 31,1946 with heavyweight 10-section, 3-double bedroom VILLA series and 6-section, 6-double bedroom cars in the POPLAR series; both were rebuilds. New 10-roomette, 6-double bedroom cars replaced them in 1950. By 1954, seven cars protected this N.Y to L.A. line, including five Budd-built Union Pacific PACIFIC series sleepers and the PRR's STONEY RAPIDS and TIPPECANOE RAPIDS. The RAPIDS cars were painted standard PRR Tuscan red, but in Spring 1955, they were changed to Union Pacific streamliner colors while retaining "Pennsylvania" on the letterboards.

The same source also confirms that the two plan 9008, ACF-built BLUE RAPIDS and BUFFALO RAPIDS, were delivered in TTG when new in 9,10 /50, unlike the plan 4140, PULLMAN-built STONEY RAPIDS and TIPPECANOE RAPIDS delivered 12/48. (Courtesy of Otto Kroutil via an email to the UP Modelers Yahoo discussion group, March 15, 2007)

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:46 PM

New York Central assigned cars in various schemes to the transcontinental pools.  The 10-6 that ran with the CZ was usually a "Valley" car built by Budd that matched the CZ pretty well.

 On the Santa Fe, the 4-4-2 "Imperial" cars were Pullman-built smooth side cars in NYC gray, used on the Century and the Super Chief. Smooth-side "Cascade" 10rmt 5DBR cars were assigned to the  "Twentieth Century-Chief" pool, at least initially. PRR had some cars in Pullman "pool" gray used on the Chief and Super Chief as well.  B&O's lightweight 10&6s had stainless steel lower panels (from the C&O order).

UP mostly got two-tone gray as well, which matched the "Overland" for most of its life.  NYC's part of the "City of San Francisco" pool was the Commodore Vanderbilt, where UP cars would be less offensive.The "City of LA" cars were handled westbound on the North Shore Limited via Ontario and the CV eastbound.

NYC pulled out of through operation to Texas (via St. Louis) before any lightweight cars got assigned.

The CofG/IC E8 pool occasionally got one of the CofG units that was not painted for IC when one of those was down for some reason.  From what I remember only 810 and 811 had IC ATS gear, so the others shouldn't have been able to lead.

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Posted by Muralist0221 on Wednesday, December 4, 2019 4:46 PM

In 1963, saw the California Zephyr with a chocolate brown IC car in front of the tapered end CZ dome car.

Also rode UP's City of Los Angeles in '62 which had an IC sleeper in the middle of the consist.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:44 AM

The most obvious mismatch that I remember was the Budd Slumbercoaches that were assigned to the "North Coast Limited".  The stainless steel definitely clashed with the two-tone green of Northern Pacific.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, December 5, 2019 8:10 AM

In the fall of 1954, a heavy rain raised a small stream near McComb, Mississiippi, to the point tht the IC was impassable--and the Panama had to go back to New Orleans--so the next day Pullman had to assemble equipment for the southbound out of Chicago. I would have loved to see the equipment when it went north--but I had to be out of town at time it ran through the town where I lived.

Incidentally, for some time an E-L car, in IC colors, was a regular on this train.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 5, 2019 2:57 PM

Deggesty
Incidentally, for some time an E-L car, in IC colors, was a regular on this train.

I had no idea.  Does anyone have a story, or pictures?

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