Note also that this is cumulative worst-case tolerance, which is treated differently from most measurement metrics in, say, component design.
The 15-minute 'late' metric is arbitrary but has comparatively long standing in various industries. While I find it reasonably significant, there is far more perceivable importance (in dealing with public users of a transportation service) in rolling 'padding' or other compensation into the operating schedule to be able to offer nominally on-time operation net of the factors tending to produce an up-to-15-minute delay. That at least eliminates the frustration of 'being late' which is more important to many, perhaps most, actual riders than a perceived minutes-quicker travel time. Not for no reason is "On the advertised..." the appropriate metric for timekeeping, instead of something like "On the achievable"...
[CMStPnP -- please get that miserable greengrocer's apostrophe out of your topic and post. In the headline, especially, it's like a sharp stick in the eye every time I have to look at it...]
Overmod Note also that this is cumulative worst-case tolerance, which is treated differently from most measurement metrics in, say, component design. The 15-minute 'late' metric is arbitrary but has comparatively long standing in various industries. While I find it reasonably significant, there is far more perceivable importance (in dealing with public users of a transportation service) in rolling 'padding' or other compensation into the operating schedule to be able to offer nominally on-time operation net of the factors tending to produce an up-to-15-minute delay. That at least eliminates the frustration of 'being late' which is more important to many, perhaps most, actual riders than a perceived minutes-quicker travel time. "Not for no reason is "On the advertised..." the appropriate metric for timekeeping, instead of something like "On the achievable"..." [CMStPnP -- please get that miserable greengrocer's apostrophe out of your topic and post. In the headline, especially, it's like a sharp stick in the eye every time I have to look at it...]
The 15-minute 'late' metric is arbitrary but has comparatively long standing in various industries. While I find it reasonably significant, there is far more perceivable importance (in dealing with public users of a transportation service) in rolling 'padding' or other compensation into the operating schedule to be able to offer nominally on-time operation net of the factors tending to produce an up-to-15-minute delay. That at least eliminates the frustration of 'being late' which is more important to many, perhaps most, actual riders than a perceived minutes-quicker travel time. "Not for no reason is "On the advertised..." the appropriate metric for timekeeping, instead of something like "On the achievable"..."
Yes, Wayne Johnston believed that "on time" meant ON TIME. The report was that he was extremely unhappy if the Panama Limited was even one minute late in arriving in Chicago--and he wanted know WHY?.
Johnny
DeggestyYes, Wayne Johnston believed that "on time" meant ON TIME. The report was that he was extremely unhappy if the Panama Limited was even one minute late in arriving in Chicago--and he wanted to know WHY?
There's a difference here, and I think important enough to take up in this discussion.
The Panama, the Century, and other crack trains for which 'management took a daily interest' were all significant priority trains. Were anything to make them late, action could and would be taken promptly to fix the situation ... Or Else.
That is no longer strictly true for Amtrak trains running on other people's trackwork into facilities they don't own and likely don't administer. Theoretically great political 'influence' could be brought to bear on freight railroads to give Amtrak full and unconditional priority regardless of circumstances -- we've had discussions on this over the years -- but it still doesn't cover the situation when something unexpectedly breaks down or stalls, or operations at a terminal facility are conducted with less than perfect foresight and attention, or weather and other natural factors rear their heads.
We then encounter Amtrak's predilection for 'going the other way' and padding schedules, often so dramatically that trains hours late at one point will be 'on time' if they even dawdle in terms of peak or average speed subsequently. Here the nominal requirement for 'higher speed' from all the prospective expensive modifications, frustration of NIMBYists, etc. becomes one of the important perceived factors. Already we can understand that the actual time gains from even substantial acceleration of a Hiawatha service train are in the under-10-minute range. I think even the usual terminal dwell for 'short final' arrival in Chicago is a meaningful range of variance for whatever end-to-end speed gets advertised for the Milwaukee trains even outside the range of 'peak hours' for the Chicago plant.
The key being, again, that many if not most of the actual passengers have made their arrangements based on a nominal arrival time, not some mealymouthed excuse that their train is "only" 14 minutes late so technically on time. We would need to adapt statistical methodology to include this assumption, for example to determine (as I think likely) that timekeeping reliability will be better for some off-peak trains, or that schedule times for some trains should be artificially longer to account for "likely" congestion and other effects while enabling a best-case timing for publication that shows (at least politically) that the money spent on improvements has produced results.
I also think that efforts, some of them recent, to keep passengers apprised of timekeeping (and perhaps the stated reason(s) for lapse in it) by a variety of up-to-the-minute or socially-enabled means are a Good Thing and should be continued and expanded in the future. This might even extend to the ability to call Uber or the like for prompt emergency pickup at intermediate stations if it is understood the train will be 'significantly enough' delayed that alternative transportation might be of actual or perceived value. (It should also, perhaps, extend to automatic holding of anticipated connections ... but that might tend to exacerbate scheduling problems or congestion 'down the line'...)
Keep in mind that the Century, Broadway and other surcharged deluxe trains were operating on track RoWs with more capacity: four vs two or two vs one main.
charlie hebdoKeep in mind that the Century, Broadway and other surcharged deluxe trains were operating on track RoWs with more capacity: four vs two or two vs one main.
And they were being operated by the company that was responsible for all aspects of their operation.
Other than the NEC, Amtrak is responsible for 'all aspects' of their trains in very few locations. Amtrak has never, to my knowledge, has NEVER had a PREMIER train to base their company's reputation upon. Operation of the Acela trainsets is about as premier as it gets and with multiple trips a day the Acela's are just another train on the NEC.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CMStPnP charlie hebdo It is 15 minutes. The Hiawatha Service has the best on-time record of any route, exceeding even the Acela NEC target of 90%. But not good enough for you? Correction: best on-time record of routes on Amtrak. Southwest Airlines has a better ontime record between city pairs I fly than the Hiawatha does. Either make the schedules more realistic or increase the speed of the train to make the current schedule. Silly to say the train arrives at a fixed time and rarely have the train pull in on that time. The Europeans do a lot better and so do some of our airlines. BTW, Amtrak Inspector Generals Report on Amtrak timekeeping and it's timekeeping database below. Some of the reports by the Inspector General make you openly wonder about the competence of Amtrak Management in securing an IT system. https://amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/OIG-A-2017-007.pdf
charlie hebdo It is 15 minutes. The Hiawatha Service has the best on-time record of any route, exceeding even the Acela NEC target of 90%. But not good enough for you?
Correction: best on-time record of routes on Amtrak. Southwest Airlines has a better ontime record between city pairs I fly than the Hiawatha does.
Either make the schedules more realistic or increase the speed of the train to make the current schedule. Silly to say the train arrives at a fixed time and rarely have the train pull in on that time. The Europeans do a lot better and so do some of our airlines.
BTW, Amtrak Inspector Generals Report on Amtrak timekeeping and it's timekeeping database below. Some of the reports by the Inspector General make you openly wonder about the competence of Amtrak Management in securing an IT system.
https://amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/OIG-A-2017-007.pdf
So, Amtrak gets their time keeping from their conductor's iPhone devices for their station arrival and departure info. This is also how they collect their delay info. The conductor inputs the delay duration, cause and comments, often with input from the engineer and the host road train dispatcher.
They keep time for all the stations and some other points in the schedule. For example, they keep the locations where the train passes from the control of one road to another.
Amtrak also has available to them, OS data from the host roads, although these locations may not match up exactly with the spots in Amtrak's contractual schedules.
In order to get "credit" for making a train, the host road has to have delays they caused under the contractural threshold for that route. Amtrak submits their data from the their "conductor iPhone" system and the host road reviews it and they negotiate any disagreements and conflicts.
It really isn't very adversarial - more of a "matter of fact" relationship.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Deggesty"Not for no reason is "On the advertised..." the appropriate metric for timekeeping, instead of something like "On the achievable"..." Yes, Wayne Johnston believed that "on time" meant ON TIME. The report was that he was extremely unhappy if the Panama Limited was even one minute late in arriving in Chicago--and he wanted know WHY?.
Back then freight customers rode the passenger trains so there was considerable damage done to a railroads reputation if the train was late and a major frieght customer was on that crack train. Some of that persists today as the Class I railroads really do not like it when Amtrak does a press release that blames them for delays. You can see it with Chicago's METRA as well. If METRA does a press release that blames BNSF railway for trains being late.........BNSF PR is always quick to respond or explain in another press release.
In my view Amtrak could be more saavy and use that embarrassment to it's advantage but it very rarely does and honestly I think Amtrak has given up on respectable passenger train operation that adheres closely to a tight schedule.
CMStPnP charlie hebdo It is 15 minutes. The Hiawatha Service has the best on-time record of any route, exceeding even the Acela NEC target of 90%. But not good enough for you? Correction: best on-time record of routes on Amtrak. Southwest Airlines has a better ontime record between city pairs I fly than the Hiawatha does.
You apparently have trouble with reading comprehension or more likely, are just a very negative person who thinks he is always right. There was no correction needed as the context was a comparison of on-time performance of Amtrak routes, not comparing with any airlines.
Spent 2-1/2 hours watching trains zoom by in Ridley Park PA today. Two of four SEPTA trains late 5-7 minutes. All Acela on time. All southbound Amtrak trains on time. Northbound Meteor over two hours late. Northbound Norfolk train, 30 minutes late. All other NB Regionals on time.
oltmanndSpent 2-1/2 hours watching trains zoom by in Ridley Park PA today. Two of four SEPTA trains late 5-7 minutes. All Acela on time. All southbound Amtrak trains on time. Northbound Meteor over two hours late. Northbound Norfolk train, 30 minutes late. All other NB Regionals on time.
For the money lavished on the NEC, which never seems to be enough per Amtrak's measurement annually (more than likely because the tenants never pay enough in), the trains there should be close to the high 90 percentile on-time with little schedule padding.
BaltACDThis is all account of the contracts between the freight carriers and the passenger carriers. While the passenger carriers (Amtrak and commuter carriers) may specify ON TIME - the freight carrier will come back with what is the 'tolerance level'. Those who deal with manufacturered products understand that all 'parts' are manufacturered with a + or - tolerance - it may be specified in thousandths of an inch or even finer - but there is a tolerance (there are other areas of tolerance than just distance measurement). The freight carriers insist on the tolerance or they won't sign the contracts for the passenger carriers to operate. Simple business negotiations.
The Canadian Pacific agreement according to WisDOT is that "they will meet the schedule if the improvements that are necessary to meet the schedule are completed by WisDOT". I didn't see any verbage in there about tolerance or about attempting to meet your schedule or an asterisk stating they would only meet the schedule if there was 15 min of padding in the measurement of "On Time". Maybe it exists, just not visible in any of the feasibility studies.
Furthermore, as a Freight Railroad contractor for switching the Hiawatha in Milwaukee......... the local CP switcher is late and sometimes misses the train arrival and departure times. Does Amtrak hold CP accountable when it is late? I have my doubts since it is a corridor......it probably blames the private car owners for this.
Look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlxKTVGYPw0 (Oops!, you can see the switcher approaching in the distance from cutoff tower)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEtnh1K6nv0
Lots of private railcar switching at the Amtrak Depot in Milwaukee as you can see they have two other private cars here other than the Friends of the 261 Hiawatha cars. Additionally, they have the Charter Steel Trainset which is usually stored in the Depot, along with passenger railcar rehab traffic for the passenger railcar outfit on the South Side of the Stadium up the track a little ways on the former airline branch (sometimes VIA Rail cars). So it's not like CP Rail doesn't have the practice for switching this location.
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