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AMTRAK throwing away extra revenue

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AMTRAK throwing away extra revenue
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, February 13, 2019 3:02 PM

Would like for this thread to only cite Amtrak missing getting extra revenue.  Our presumption is that Amtrak is only trying to reduce costs without acknowledging that the extra revenue will exceed any extra costs. 

Will start with the coming Friday FEB 15.  This supposedly a slow travel time for passengers?

From NYP the departure trains to end points. Crescent sold out coach 2 rooms, Palmetto only Business class left,  Palmetto only business  class left, Star only 3 rooms left, Meteor sold out, Cardinal few coach seats and  2 sleeper, LSL sold out.  Only Pensylvanian to Capitol with a few seats.

This appears either not enough equipment seats available or someone not assigning more cars?.  Whatever the reason Amtrak appears to desperately need more available positions for sale maybe just certain days?.  Why not as the Siemens equipment goes on line take the displaced equipment and assign it to a surge fleet?  The WASH - ATL needs the ability to handle cut off cars at ATL. 

It appears to us that even if the extra seats will only be needed for a few days of each week that assigning them when needed to existing trains is very revenue vs costs possible?  

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, February 13, 2019 4:30 PM

Blue streak 1, I fear that your suggestion is too simple for the minds in charge at Amtrak.

Johnny

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, February 13, 2019 6:24 PM

Increasing patronage does not fit the model of decreasing costs by decreasing equipment and service.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:01 PM

I think the problem is due to their bad accounting systems they have no idea where break even is on anything rail passenger related.   Soooo, how would they know where the costs end and the revenue begins?    Also, I don't think your going to get your wish on Amtrak using worn equipment in some kind of equipment reserve or pool.    Amtrak management does not seem to think like that.

As for missing revenue and utilization opportunities, yes Amtrak does that just about everywhere.   Look they are only able to charter trains that turn a profit when someone else sets it up for them.   Plenty of charter train opportunities never acted on.   Chicago to Green Bay football trips to Lambeau field which is only a few city blocks from the former Green Bay ex-C&NW depot?   Less risky would be just extending the Chicago to Milwaukee Hiawatha train 3 more miles past the Amtrak Depot to discharge at Brewers Stadium for Brewers games?

Then there is that whole incredibly stupid internal Amtrak rule that they would like to avoid train departures after 9:00 p.m. system wide from origin points.    Who thought that one up?    It took persuasion for Wisconsin to get Amtrak to part with that rule on the Chicago to Milwaukee route and guess what?   poof!   from what I hear ridership was poor on the Saturday late night train but pretty decent on the Friday late night train (they dropped Sat).   So perhaps the market was folks that work in Chicago that wanted to go out after work on Friday?   Amtrak never would have done that experiment without WisDOT pushing them from behind to try it.    They landed another train at least with the experiment, would like to know what the ridership is on it.   Some  night on a future visit to Wisconsin I might just drive down and see.    Now finally I see Amtrak is advertising on their website Chicago Broadway Plays as well (smart move that should have been tried 15-20 years ago).

Some progress is being made but always it is in baby steps with Amtrak.

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Posted by runnerdude48 on Thursday, February 14, 2019 2:16 PM

blue streak 1
Will start with the coming Friday FEB 15.  This supposedly a slow travel time for passengers?

Friday Feb 15 is the start of school vacation week in the Northeast and is typically a very heavy travel period with trips south to Florida.  So these extra cars you want would be used on Friday the 15th and maybe the following Saturday and sunday and then come back north on the next Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  Then what?  They'll have to be maintained until the next peak time maybe Easter, maybe not.  Not everyone has Good Friday off or even cares.  April school vacation may provide some extra revenue but with all the snow days the kids have had this year that vacation looks to be on the way out.

Any company that keeps excess assets maintained just for a few peak periods is certainly going to lose on the deal.  Show me your analysis of extra revenue exceeding the cost of maintaining rarely used equipment and maybe I'll change my mind.  But I think your analysis maybe just a guess.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, February 15, 2019 6:52 AM

The previous post makes a valid point.  The situation is not the same as a suburban operation in which much of the equipment makes only one round trip daily.  Amtrak cannot afford to maintain excess equipment that will operate four or five times a year during extreme peak periods like Thanksgiving or occasional upward blips in traffic.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, February 15, 2019 7:47 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Amtrak cannot afford to maintain excess equipment that will operate four or five times a year during extreme peak periods like Thanksgiving or occasional upward blips in traffic.

While I would agree with this.   Does this also mean Amtrak doesn't lift a finger to short term lease extra coaches from the private fleet and from other Commuter railroads to cover surge crowds?   

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:30 PM

There is another extreme example that probably would not add much revenue.  Trains 2, 5, 6 , 7, 8, 11, 14, 19 of varios dates tonight are all over 3 hours late.  However the reservation system and even some agents will not allow a person to book the train that will not arrive until a later time instead of the scheduled time.

Example #8/14 will not arrive at MKE before 2320 tonight but reservation system will not allow booking and does not show it available.  Late night MKE Saturday revelers cannot book a train to CHI tonight. 

Not many persons would find an available train on web site.  Knowledgeable persons may have to try to convince a slow to answer overloaded reservation system agent that they want a seat.  But even a few lost additional bookings become revenue thrown away.  With all of the late Amtrak trains that occurs daily this IMO is a problem.  Also at about 40 - 45 minutes before scheduled departure the reservation system posts "too close to departure time"  Then minutes are important if train is only hour late I or anyone may have to wait too long on phone to get a live agent. 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, February 17, 2019 12:12 AM

^^^ MKE to CHI is unreserved and a good portion of the frequent travelers or those working in Chicago have a rail pass specifically sold on this route.   The rail pass is good for an entire month and I think they have to purchase another one or set it up on their CC to auto purchase.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, February 17, 2019 8:54 AM

At 0850 cannot book on today's #8 MSP - CHI.  Scheduled to leave MSP at 0800 but is delayed and will not leave until 1045.  How does anyone get on #8 at this time?  This is a better example than my original post.   Lost revenue?  You bet!!

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 17, 2019 10:18 AM

blue streak 1

At 0850 cannot book on today's #8 MSP - CHI.  Scheduled to leave MSP at 0800 but is delayed and will not leave until 1045. How does anyone get on #8 at this time?  This is a better example than my original post.   Lost revenue?  You bet!!

Show up and get on!

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Posted by zardoz on Sunday, February 17, 2019 10:36 AM

BaltACD

Increasing patronage does not fit the model of decreasing costs by decreasing equipment and service.

 

Amtrak's version of PSR?

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 17, 2019 12:59 PM

zardoz
 
BaltACD

Increasing patronage does not fit the model of decreasing costs by decreasing equipment and service. 

Amtrak's version of PSR?

Likely!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, February 17, 2019 1:23 PM

blue streak 1
At 0850 cannot book on today's #8 MSP - CHI.  Scheduled to leave MSP at 0800 but is delayed and will not leave until 1045.  How does anyone get on #8 at this time?  This is a better example than my original post.   Lost revenue?  You bet!!

OK that is a different story, the Empire Builder is a all reserved train so you either need a reservation to board or hope there is an empty seat open you can purchase which since they check tickets at boarding usually.......not sure how they handle that.    They have hand held point of sale terminals with a connection into Amtraks larger reservation system so they should be able to sell you a ticket if there is a seat open.

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Posted by JPS1 on Sunday, February 17, 2019 4:19 PM

Several years ago I rode the Coast Starlight from LAX to Oakland.  About five minutes or so before departure time four Amish folks showed up and wanted to buy tickets to Oakland.  Well, they were dressed like Amish folks, but they could have been Mennonites.

The conductor determined that there was room on the train, and had them sit in the lounge car while he worked up the fares for them.  He found four seats for them, although they were not all together.

Most of the Amtrak employees that I have encountered will go out of their way to help people as well as their employer.  Not all of them!  But most of them!

Amtrak claims that 90 percent of its reservations are made online.  Assuming this is accurate, last minute walk-ups probably are not a significant factor. 

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Posted by Jim200 on Monday, February 25, 2019 12:05 PM

"Show up and get on" could be a promotion which rakes in more patronage and money. The lounge car could be used for extra seats or standing room which could be accomplished temporarily with transit hangers or poles. I recall having a seat in the lounge car with about 25 others who were going to the first destinations from Chicago (about 200  miles), when the 6:40 PM Capitol Limited was so late that it took the 9:30 PM slot of the Lake Shore Limited which I was booked on. The LSL was also going to be leaving much later.

In the lounge car a determination could be made for those who get empty coach seats, which during the middle of the week are almost always available. Those with close destinations could remain in the lounge car.

Another thing that happens is for coach seats to become available as the train progresses, such as after St Louis and Atlanta, and possibly after Albany, Kansas City, Omaha, and others going westward. The reservation system couldn't book you, but you can "Show up and get on".

Another possible idea for increased patronage is handling baggage at every station. Why can't a car attendant be assigned the baggage car during a station stop? We have wheelchair lifts on the coach cars; why not have baggage lifts on baggage cars, if that would help. Different colored area tags with QR coding the destination or similar smart tag, could help with identification for disbursal.

"Show up and we will take it". If the passenger can get even heavier than 50 lbs to the baggage lift, it will automatically weigh and print out a QR coded bill. This can immediately be paid by a smart phone or conventionally. If we think into the future, the baggage lift could be a robot and handle almost everything, but we don't have money for that now.

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