Last "Canadian" departures for January, 2018

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  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • From: NotIn, TX
  • 504 posts
Last "Canadian" departures for January, 2018
Posted by VerMontanan on Monday, February 05, 2018 4:17 PM

Not to beat the proverbial Dead Horse or something more applicable with regard to an Iron Horse in this case, but the last "Canadian" trains of January (January origin, that is - both trains departed origin January 30) had especially painful trips.

 
Train 1-30 departed Toronto 17.5 hours late after a late inbound arrival of equipment and arrived Vancouver 29 hours, 40 minutes late, losing 12 hours 10 minutes en route on schedule 14 hours longer than 10 years ago.
 
Train 2-30 departed Vancouver on time and arrived Toronto 24 hours, 33 minute late.  While this is not exceptionally unusual, it appears there must have been some kind of service interruption on CN as the train was 15 hours between Sioux Lookout and Armstrong.
 
While weather is nicer as we get closer to Spring, it remains to be seen how much weather has to do with how the CN handles the Canadian, especially with regard to its supersized trains.  On the other hand, track expansion plans for CN (and the corresponding work and track time required to do it) may delay the train all the more.  It's difficult to see how VIA will be able to launch their third weekly frequency in the Spring given the current operating scenario.  It's pretty pathetic when it's a big deal when the train arrives at its terminus less than a day late.
 
It will be interesting to see how the "Moonlighter" trip later this month fare.  It's kind of a Catch 22 for CN.  Run the train a day late as usual and people will be unhappy with lots of sitting around in the middle of nowhere and possible missed hotel accommodations and airline connections.  Run the train on time / early (due to the gobs of fat in the schedule) and make it clear to all how much you're delaying it......
 
--Mark Meyer
 
Status for train 01-14 on Tuesday Jan 30 from TORONTO UNION STATION:
 

The train has arrived in VANCOUVER at 15:22 * on Feb 4 .
Station Scheduled Estimated Actual Remarks
TORONTO UNION STATION
2018-01-30
  Dep:
22:00
 
15:30
 
WASHAGO
2018-01-31
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:40
00:40
 
 
17:40
17:40
 
 
PARRY SOUND SOUTH
  Arr:
  Dep:
02:42
02:42
 
 
19:47
19:48
 
 
SUDBURY JCT
  Arr:
  Dep:
05:13
05:13
 
 
22:34
22:34
 
 
CAPREOL
  Arr:
  Dep:
05:38
06:08
 
 
22:54
23:08
 
 
LAFOREST
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:08
07:08
 
 
 
 
 
 
MCKEE`S CAMP
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:11
07:11
 
 
 
 
 
 
FELIX
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:30
07:30
 
 
 
 
 
 
WESTREE
  Arr:
  Dep:
08:16
08:16
 
 
 
 
 
 
GOGAMA
  Arr:
  Dep:
08:53
08:53
 
 
 
 
 
 
FOLEYET
  Arr:
  Dep:
10:59
10:59
 
 
02:49
02:49
 
 
ELSAS
  Arr:
  Dep:
11:53
11:53
 
 
 
 
 
 
OBA
  Arr:
  Dep:
13:51
13:51
 
 
 
 
 
 
HORNEPAYNE
  Arr:
  Dep:
14:40
15:20
 
 
06:21
07:08
 
 
HILLSPORT
  Arr:
  Dep:
16:28
16:28
 
 
 
 
 
 
CARAMAT
  Arr:
  Dep:
17:18
17:18
 
 
 
 
 
 
LONGLAC
  Arr:
  Dep:
17:49
17:49
 
 
09:57
09:58
 
 
NAKINA
  Arr:
  Dep:
18:29
18:29
 
 
 
 
 
 
AUDEN
  Arr:
  Dep:
19:41
19:41
 
 
 
 
 
 
FERLAND
  Arr:
  Dep:
20:32
20:32
 
 
 
 
 
 
MUD RIVER
  Arr:
  Dep:
20:42
20:42
 
 
 
 
 
 
ARMSTRONG
  Arr:
  Dep:
21:31
21:31
 
 
15:03
15:04
 
 
COLLINS
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:10
22:10
 
 
 
 
 
 
ALLANWATER BRIDGE
  Arr:
  Dep:
21:48
21:48
 
 
 
 
 
 
FLINDT LANDING
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:05
22:05
 
 
 
 
 
 
SAVANT LAKE
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:18
22:18
 
 
 
 
 
 
SIOUX LOOKOUT
  Arr:
  Dep:
23:39
00:09
 
 
19:23
 
 
 
RICHAN
  Arr:
  Dep:
01:28
01:28
 
 
 
 
 
 
RED LAKE ROAD
  Arr:
  Dep:
02:09
02:09
 
 
 
 
 
 
CANYON
  Arr:
  Dep:
02:40
02:40
 
 
 
 
 
 
FARLANE
  Arr:
  Dep:
03:19
03:19
 
 
 
 
 
 
REDDITT
  Arr:
  Dep:
03:37
03:37
 
 
23:18
23:18
 
 
MINAKI
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:03
04:03
 
 
 
 
 
 
OTTERMERE
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:27
04:27
 
 
 
 
 
 
MALACHI
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:32
04:32
 
 
 
 
 
 
COPELANDS LANDING
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:36
04:36
 
 
 
 
 
 
RICE LAKE
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:46
04:46
 
 
 
 
 
 
WINNITOBA
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:51
04:51
 
 
 
 
 
 
OPHIR
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:57
04:57
 
 
 
 
 
 
BRERETON LAKE
  Arr:
  Dep:
05:18
05:18
 
 
 
 
 
 
WINNIPEG
  Arr:
  Dep:
08:00
11:45
 
 
02:48
04:04
 
 
PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE
  Arr:
  Dep:
13:19
13:19
 
 
05:22
05:22
 
 
RIVERS
  Arr:
  Dep:
15:16
15:16
 
 
06:59
07:01
 
 
MELVILLE
  Arr:
  Dep:
18:39
18:39
 
 
13:27
13:42
 
 
WATROUS
  Arr:
  Dep:
21:29
21:29
 
 
19:37
19:37
 
 
SASKATOON
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:55
23:20
 
 
21:19
21:58
 
 
BIGGAR
2018-02-02
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:49
00:59
 
 
23:42
23:44
 
 
UNITY
  Arr:
  Dep:
02:14
02:14
 
 
 
 
 
 
WAINWRIGHT
  Arr:
  Dep:
03:03
03:03
 
 
03:56
03:56
 
 
VIKING
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:06
04:06
 
 
 
 
 
 
EDMONTON
  Arr:
  Dep:
06:22
07:37
 
 
08:33
09:07
 
 
EVANSBURG
  Arr:
  Dep:
08:55
08:55
 
 
 
 
 
 
EDSON
  Arr:
  Dep:
10:13
10:13
 
 
11:46
11:46
 
 
HINTON
  Arr:
  Dep:
11:24
11:24
 
 
 
 
 
 
JASPER
  Arr:
  Dep:
13:00
14:30
 
 
14:50
16:08
 
 
VALEMOUNT
  Arr:
  Dep:
16:07
16:07
 
 
 
 
 
 
BLUE RIVER
  Arr:
  Dep:
18:27
18:27
 
 
21:13
21:13
 
 
CLEARWATER
  Arr:
  Dep:
20:44
20:44
 
 
 
 
 
 
KAMLOOPS NORTH
  Arr:
  Dep:
23:09
23:44
 
 
03:23
03:46
 
 
ASHCROFT
2018-02-03
  Arr:
  Dep:
01:27
01:27
 
 
 
 
 
 
BOSTON BAR
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:14
04:14
 
 
08:24
08:24
 
 
CHILLIWACK
  Arr:
  Dep:
06:40
06:40
 
 
10:41
10:41
 
 
ABBOTSFORD
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:08
07:08
 
 
11:06
11:08
 
 
VANCOUVER
2018-02-03
  Arr:
09:42
 
15:22
Arrived
Travel advisory: A late train may make up for lost time and arrive earlier than expected. VIA recommends that you arrive at the station in advance of the estimated time when there is a delay.


Status for train 02-14 on Tuesday Jan 30 from VANCOUVER:
 

The train has arrived in TORONTO UNION STATION at 10:03 * on Feb 4 .
Station Scheduled Estimated Actual Remarks
VANCOUVER
2018-01-30
  Dep:
20:30
 
20:30
 
MISSION HARBOUR
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:05
22:05
 
 
 
 
 
 
AGASSIZ
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:33
22:33
 
 
22:41
22:40
 
 
NORTH BEND
2018-01-31
  Arr:
  Dep:
01:16
01:16
 
 
01:15
01:16
 
 
ASHCROFT
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:02
04:02
 
 
 
 
 
 
KAMLOOPS NORTH
  Arr:
  Dep:
06:00
06:35
 
 
07:20
07:39
 
 
CLEARWATER
  Arr:
  Dep:
08:46
08:46
 
 
 
 
 
 
BLUE RIVER
  Arr:
  Dep:
10:50
10:50
 
 
12:06
12:08
 
 
VALEMOUNT
  Arr:
  Dep:
12:50
12:50
 
 
 
 
 
 
JASPER
  Arr:
  Dep:
16:00
17:30
 
 
16:26
19:39
 
 
HINTON
  Arr:
  Dep:
18:55
18:55
 
 
 
 
 
 
EDSON
  Arr:
  Dep:
20:20
20:20
 
 
19:59
19:59
 
 
EVANSBURG
  Arr:
  Dep:
21:38
21:38
 
 
 
 
 
 
EDMONTON
  Arr:
  Dep:
23:00
23:59
 
 
01:14
02:04
 
 
VIKING
  Arr:
  Dep:
02:19
02:19
 
 
 
 
 
 
WAINWRIGHT
  Arr:
  Dep:
03:24
03:24
 
 
05:52
06:19
 
 
UNITY
  Arr:
  Dep:
06:16
06:16
 
 
 
 
 
 
BIGGAR
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:21
07:31
 
 
10:34
10:39
 
 
SASKATOON
  Arr:
  Dep:
09:07
09:32
 
 
14:00
15:10
 
 
WATROUS
  Arr:
  Dep:
11:01
11:01
 
 
18:29
18:31
 
 
MELVILLE
  Arr:
  Dep:
13:52
13:52
 
 
22:25
22:41
 
 
RIVERS
  Arr:
  Dep:
17:17
17:17
 
 
04:04
04:10
 
 
PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE
  Arr:
  Dep:
19:10
19:10
 
 
05:46
05:46
 
 
WINNIPEG
  Arr:
  Dep:
20:45
22:30
 
 
07:44
08:53
 
 
BRERETON LAKE
  Arr:
  Dep:
23:56
23:56
 
 
 
 
 
 
OPHIR
2018-02-02
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:13
00:13
 
 
 
 
 
 
WINNITOBA
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:17
00:17
 
 
 
 
 
 
RICE LAKE
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:22
00:22
 
 
 
 
 
 
COPELANDS LANDING
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:31
00:31
 
 
 
 
 
 
MALACHI
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:35
00:35
 
 
 
 
 
 
OTTERMERE
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:39
00:39
 
 
 
 
 
 
MINAKI
  Arr:
  Dep:
01:00
01:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
REDDITT
  Arr:
  Dep:
01:29
01:29
 
 
11:20
11:20
 
 
FARLANE
  Arr:
  Dep:
01:46
01:46
 
 
 
 
 
 
CANYON
  Arr:
  Dep:
02:21
02:21
 
 
 
 
 
 
RED LAKE ROAD
  Arr:
  Dep:
02:51
02:51
 
 
 
 
 
 
RICHAN
  Arr:
  Dep:
03:41
03:41
 
 
 
 
 
 
SIOUX LOOKOUT
  Arr:
  Dep:
05:02
05:42
 
 
14:59
15:12
 
 
SAVANT LAKE
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:07
07:07
 
 
 
 
 
 
FLINDT LANDING
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:27
07:27
 
 
 
 
 
 
ALLANWATER BRIDGE
  Arr:
  Dep:
07:42
07:42
 
 
 
 
 
 
COLLINS
  Arr:
  Dep:
09:27
09:27
 
 
 
 
 
 
ARMSTRONG
  Arr:
  Dep:
09:48
09:48
 
 
10:19
10:45
 
 
MUD RIVER
  Arr:
  Dep:
10:29
10:29
 
 
 
 
 
 
FERLAND
  Arr:
  Dep:
10:33
10:33
 
 
 
 
 
 
AUDEN
  Arr:
  Dep:
11:13
11:13
 
 
 
 
 
 
NAKINA
  Arr:
  Dep:
12:28
12:28
 
 
 
 
 
 
LONGLAC
  Arr:
  Dep:
13:03
13:03
 
 
14:35
14:47
 
 
CARAMAT
  Arr:
  Dep:
13:33
13:33
 
 
 
 
 
 
HILLSPORT
  Arr:
  Dep:
14:23
14:23
 
 
 
 
 
 
HORNEPAYNE
  Arr:
  Dep:
15:35
16:10
 
 
18:27
19:05
 
 
OBA
  Arr:
  Dep:
17:10
17:10
 
 
 
 
 
 
ELSAS
  Arr:
  Dep:
19:10
19:10
 
 
 
 
 
 
FOLEYET
  Arr:
  Dep:
19:58
19:58
 
 
22:40
22:40
 
 
GOGAMA
  Arr:
  Dep:
21:43
21:43
 
 
 
 
 
 
WESTREE
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:02
22:02
 
 
 
 
 
 
FELIX
  Arr:
  Dep:
22:44
22:44
 
 
 
 
 
 
MCKEE`S CAMP
  Arr:
  Dep:
23:12
23:12
 
 
 
 
 
 
LAFOREST
  Arr:
  Dep:
23:23
23:23
 
 
 
 
 
 
CAPREOL
2018-02-03
  Arr:
  Dep:
00:18
00:48
 
 
02:32
02:48
 
 
SUDBURY JCT
  Arr:
  Dep:
01:17
01:17
 
 
03:09
03:20
 
 
PARRY SOUND
  Arr:
  Dep:
04:33
04:33
 
 
06:05
06:08
 
 
WASHAGO
  Arr:
  Dep:
06:49
06:49
 
 
07:53
07:53
 
 
TORONTO UNION STATION
2018-02-03
  Arr:
09:30
 
10:03
Arrived
Travel advisory: A late train may make up for lost time and arrive earlier than expected. VIA recommends that you arrive at the station in advance of the estimated time when there is a delay.

Mark Meyer

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: US
  • 14,340 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, February 05, 2018 4:47 PM

Ex Dispatchers Advisory: A late train may lose more time and arrive later than expected as it is operating out of its operational window. Common sense recommends that you arrive at the station in advance of the estimated time when there is a delay and check for operational updates on a continuing basis.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • From: NotIn, TX
  • 504 posts
Posted by VerMontanan on Monday, February 05, 2018 9:34 PM

"Ex Dispatchers Advisory: A late train may lose more time and arrive later than expected as it is operating out of its operational window. Common sense recommends that you arrive at the station in advance of the estimated time when there is a delay and check for operational updates on a continuing basis."

The thought that there could be an "operational window" for the "Canadian" on CN is a thing of the past.  Not with 14 hours of padding westbound and 10 eastbound and the train still runs 24 hours late.  And given that this train can lose so much time so fast on CN I am at a loss as to how anything (such as relief crews) is planned for this train.  Dispatching on CN must be a whole different animal than many of us are used to.

--Mark Meyer (17 years dispatching experience, but that was when we tried to get the passenger train over the road....)

Mark Meyer

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • 817 posts
Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:59 AM

   Funny, I've always wanted to ride a wonderful passenger train across Canada, but due to this post and many like it, and due to the articles I read in Trains, why bother?

   What sort of masochist would pay a small fortune to ride a train that will not only require an extra day beyond the scheduled time, but likely pass through the best scenery at night?  To me that's a triple whammy.

Poor Canadian.

 

 

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 749 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, February 08, 2018 5:19 PM

In years past the "Moonlighter" trips have kept time fairly well, which should make it obvious that CN can keep VIA on time, if they so choose.

Having said that, CN's Western lines are a frozen mess right now.  We are short of power, crews and track space, and there is just as much freight as when oil was at $140/barrel a few years ago, if not more.

Trains are being parked constantly for want of crews, tying up sidings and double track (as they are too long to fit in yards).  Once again the greater Edmonton Terminal has forgotten it has yards, and mixed up trains of switch traffic are being sent to outlying yards like Edson or Mirror, AB, only for much of the train to head back to Edmonton after being sorted out.  The rest of that traffic then piles up and sits, for want of power.

Edmonton is so congested that they don't even have time to fuel locomotives anymore, so many trains are met by a fuel truck at their next crew change point, causing even more mainline delays.

On top of this they are (once again) trying to run everything at 10,000+ feet in the cold weather, so when night falls and temperatures drop these trains cannot pump enough air to qualify, and everyone sits and waits until morning.

The cold is killing locomotives left and right, especially the secondhand and leased GE Dash-8's.  Those 200 new ET44AC's can't arrive soon enough.  Unfortunately both EMD Tier-4 demonstrators also broke down in the cold weather last month (management was not impressed with that) so I doubt CN will order any.

In the middle of all this a bi-weekly tourist train is a minor concern to CN.  

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    October, 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 1,722 posts
Posted by cx500 on Friday, February 09, 2018 12:19 PM

From watching and listening to activity in the Jasper yard about a month ago, I got the impression that compounding the fundamental issues that SD70Dude has listed, is that some of the more recent hires are short on experience.  No matter how good a training course is, it can never fully replace the knowledge that comes with a few years of actually running trains in the local environment.

Troubleshooting is easier when you have done it before with a similar problem, or maybe you know a better way that avoided the problem in the first place. 

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: US
  • 14,340 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 09, 2018 1:28 PM

Management views themselves as the 'only trained and irreplaceable' personnel on railroads (and most other businesses) and that employees are a dime a dozen and require no learned skills to perform their jobs and get treated as such.  

The truth being that 'management' is the most easily replaceable commodity on any business concern.  The crossovers between kinds of businesses are legendary and show no signs of ending.  Run a railroad, run a airline, run a big box store, run a grocery chain - management is mangement.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 9,375 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, February 09, 2018 1:28 PM

cx500

From watching and listening to activity in the Jasper yard about a month ago, I got the impression that compounding the fundamental issues that SD70Dude has listed, is that some of the more recent hires are short on experience.  No matter how good a training course is, it can never fully replace the knowledge that comes with a few years of actually running trains in the local environment.

Troubleshooting is easier when you have done it before with a similar problem, or maybe you know a better way that avoided the problem in the first place. 

 

Indeed, there are many aspects to your work that can be learned only through experience. This has been quite evident in my experiences when traveling on Amtrak trains.

Example: in 1973, my wife, her thre children, and I traveled from Chicago to Albuquerque and back. Going west, the dining car steward definitely was well-experienced--he knew what to do, what not to do, and what could be done. Among other non-essential things, he offered to take a picture of us as we ate. Returning, the steward had to rely on the Book, and could not deviate from it. 

Granted, this does not pertain to the operation of the train itself, but it does pertain to customer relations.

Johnny

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