Old newsreel I found......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii8NjKsIC2A
I have a video that shows how the Monon converted the old hospital cars into a first class streamliner. It is sad to watch a train die...I just recently went out to see Ringling Bros pass through NJ for the last time. As I watched it I had happy memories of my childhood.
The "Thoroughbred" had been hanging on based on its mail contract for several years. I can remember seeing the southbound run in the mid-1960's with a C420, five or six mail-express cars and one 1/2 to 2/3 full coach.
the guy narrating the film sounds like Professor Frink from "The Simpsons."
The last Monon train to Indianapolis was in 1959.
54light15 the guy narrating the film sounds like Professor Frink from "The Simpsons."
Or Bill "Frinkie" Frink of the old Eyewitness News team in the 70s, originators of "Happy Talk News."
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1QS9uMI_Cw
Microsoft Train Simulator MONON:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEZzOidOw_0
schlimmOr Bill "Frinkie" Frink of the old Eyewitness News team in the 70s, originators of "Happy Talk News."
Part of the Al Primo (from Philly) revolution. When it was good it produced things like this
To get to the true I'mwitless News a few years later, I think you have to blame the ineffable Roone Arledge (Silverman's counterpart, in a sense) who wrecked much of sports coverage and then leveraged his formula into News-As-Entertainment ... remember Rose Ann Roseannadanna and Ernie Whiteteeth Anastos as 'anchors'? At least that's how I remember it from 'the time'.
Not to say you can't do 'happy-talk news' effectively (when I was a news director we didn't cover fires, rapes, murders and such) - but when it gets to Ted Turner's patootie on-air with the 'Good News' that was so beautifully skewered on SNL, you start to wonder where the manipulation stops.
bill613a The last Monon train to Indianapolis was in 1959.
What parts of the Monon are still in use?
Amtraks' Cardinal (Hoosier) run over former Monon tracks between Crawfordsville IN and just North of Dyer IN where it connects to the Canadian National (former Grand Trunk) and there are a few other freight only pieces in southern Indiana. I think there is a short stretch North from the KT&I bridge and I think the Indiana Southern operates a piece around Seymour IN
Electroliner 1935Amtraks' Cardinal (Hoosier) run over former Monon tracks between Crawfordsville IN and just North of Dyer IN where it connects to the Canadian National (former Grand Trunk) and there are a few other freight only pieces in southern Indiana. I think there is a short stretch North from the KT&I bridge and I think the Indiana Southern operates a piece around Seymour IN
Monon never went near Seymour - only the B&O (former O&M) and the PRR. PRR Operator staffed JO Tower which controlled the interlocking that controlled the crossing of the two carriers at grade.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I think I should have said Mitchell.
Electroliner 1935I think I should have said Mitchell.
Mitchell it is - worked there for a week or so, Gus Grissom's (Astronaut) father was the signal maintainer.
Back in 67, after learning that it was going to end passenger service, I took my son (6) on the Monon from Chicago to Louisville since I had always wanted to ride it. They had reduced the service to one set of equipment leaving Chicago at 5 pm and getting into Louisville about 12:30 and lv Louisville about 6 am to get to Chicago at 1:30 pm. I had decided to take Monon back to Mitchell, thence B&O to St Louis, PRR to Effingham, & IC to Chicago. Slept on the train (after getting permission) in the Louisville sta. Car cleaners came on woke us up (they were surprised), then turned the lights back out. B&O #1 pulled into a siding (I think it was at Flora) for its meet with #2, and then backed out. I believe this was all hand throw switches. PRR was supposed to lv St L at 6:00 pm but left about 30-35 min late. Connection at Effingham was supposed to be 30 min and I was sweating it but somehow we got the green for the diamonds and as we cleared and stopped, the City of NO hit the diamonds. Very glad they shared the station. I was very glad to get home but got a lot of miles in two days. When were you working that area of the B&O?
Electroliner 1935When were you working that area of the B&O?
St. Louis Div - June-Dec. 1965; Feb 1966 - June 1967. Most all train order operators jobs between Storrs Jct. (Cincinnati) and HN Cabin (E. St.Louis) including WS Tower at Watson, IN on the branch from North Vernon to Louisville.
In 1965, when On Time, the normal meeting spot for #1 & #2 was Loogootee.
How common was it to meet and then back out of a siding? This was the only time I had this happen. Every other time I was on a train that took a siding, it continued to the other end and regained the main after the meet.
Whaat may be rarer: meet an eastbound that uses the pass track and, after it is gone, back to where you can use the pass track--and go past another eastbound that is on the main. I saw this three years at Alpine, Texas--and again, that fall, on the line to Prince Rupert, B.C.
In that meet at Alpine, our conductor had to keep telling our engineer that we needed to move farther until we had cleared the fouling point. Apparently the engineer of the freight that was on the main had to back to give us enough room.
Johnny
How fast did the Monon Streamliners go?
Electroliner 1935How common was it to meet and then back out of a siding? This was the only time I had this happen. Every other time I was on a train that took a siding, it continued to the other end and regained the main after the meet.
Backing into a siding for a meet is a uncommon occurence. Several factors work against this form of a meet. On the St. Louis Division at the time the method of operation was Timetable and Train Orders along with a Absolute Permissive Block signal system. Presuming that the meet is between #1 (WB) and #2 (EB) at Siding S. If #1 is to back in at S, then the EE of the siding must be blocked or the East Switch of the siding cannot be reversed for whatever reason. #2 must be held at the siding prior to S so that #1 can pull past the West Switch at S, operate it and back into the clear on the WE of S and relign the switch for Main Track Movement. When #1 passes the WE of S the signals will roll to stop all the way to the next siding to the West of S. After #1 clears into the WE of S, the signals between S and the next siding West will roll to Clear. At that point if #2 has proper Train Order authority, it can accept the Clear signal and proceed East to meet #1 at S. After the meet, if #1 has proper Train Order and or Timetable authority it can then proceed West.
Yikes! My head is spinning!
Need some computer genuis to come up with an animation of that!
ATSFGuy How fast did the Monon Streamliners go?
MiningmanYikes! My head is spinning! Need some computer genuis to come up with an animation of that!
A common train dispatching problem. Train Dispatchers are tasked with efficient use of the carriers physical plant in conformance with the operating rules. When operating with Timetable and Train Orders as well as automatic block signals when operation can be involved and convoluted to those that aren't a part of the system. That 'obtuseness' of TT & TO operations is one of the reasons it no longer exists with the carriers having moved on to a Track Warrant form of operation that is facilitated by good radio communications between Dispatchers, T&E Crews and all other personnel that require track occupancy time with guaranteed safety.
TT & TO operation grew out of the limited communications capability of hard line telegraph and then telephone. Radio opened new vista's of rules abilites compared to hard line telephones.
BaltACDBacking into a siding for a meet is a uncommon occurence.
Balt, I can understand why. But as I said, we stopped and then entered the siding, waited a while and #2 passed, then we backed out onto the main and proceeded to St Louis. I wish I could tell you that something else (a local or a bad order set out) was on the west end of the siding but I can't. We did not back in to the siding. Which as you state would incur occupying the next block beyond the west end of the siding. Did you ever issue orders for meets like that?
Also, you indicated that you worked as an operator at Storrs Jct and offices West. Was there a District or regional divide there? When I worked with the PRR, some of my assignments were at Loveland where the Cincinnati and Xenia (PRR) crossed the B&O but I was not big on remembering names. PRR was removing two diamonds and single tracking through the crossing. To reduce maintenance costs. Back then there were four trains each way through Loveland, 3 St Louis- Washington and 1 Cincinnati-Pittsburgh. You would have had five each way at Storrs, the same 3 plus two Cincinnati-Louisville as they entered and left (CUT) Cincinnati Union Station. Did you ever go to tower A at CUT?
BaltACDTT & TO operation grew out of the limited communications capability of hard line telegraph and then telephone. Radio opened new vista's of rules abilites compared to hard line telephones.
When did TT die or end on the B&O, I think the PRR was no longer using it in 1956 when I was there. Did have a number of Teletype machines and circuits. Of course,PRR had its TRAINPHONE (carrier ) system to the locomotives before many had two way radios. Also a lot of open phone wires. Some of which I helped string replacements for. Were you a code man?
Electroliner 1935 BaltACD When did TT die or end on the B&O, I think the PRR was no longer using it in 1956 when I was there. Did have a number of Teletype machines and circuits. Of course,PRR had its TRAINPHONE (carrier ) system to the locomotives before many had two way radios. Also a lot of open phone wires. Some of which I helped string replacements for. Were you a code man?
BaltACD
TT & TO ended as a method of operation with the implementation of the CSX Rule book in about 1988 (at that point in my career I was employed by Chessie Computer Services Inc. and not directly involved with actual transportation matters).
The 1988 time frame is when CSX and the other carriers began their serious efforts to eliminate cabooses and more than 2 man crews. The new rules implemented createda method of operations known as Direct Train Control or DTC. All track segments on CSX became identified with Block names - both in signalled and unsignalled territory. This time frame is also when CSX began moving most all Train Dispatchers to Jacksonville and implementing the Computer Aided Dispatching System (CADS) wherein computer logic was used to 'protect' the Dispatcher's issuance of Blocks and other on track authorities. Blocks were identified in the ETT and could only be issued in their entirety.
Approximately 2006, CSX moved on to the 'Next Gen CADS' which did away with DTC as the method of operations and moved on to Track Warrants as the method of operation. Track Warrants don't have TT defined limits, the issuance of each Warrant defines the limit of that particular warrent, the CADS system protects the Dispatcher by not permitting overlapping authority of the Track Warrants.
Telegraphy was not required when I hired out, although 'old heads' on the St. Louis Division still used the Wire for personal communications as long as the Wire worked. I never learned code.
Electroliner 1935 BaltACD Balt, I can understand why. But as I said, we stopped and then entered the siding, waited a while and #2 passed, then we backed out onto the main and proceeded to St Louis. I wish I could tell you that something else (a local or a bad order set out) was on the west end of the siding but I can't. We did not back in to the siding. Which as you state would incur occupying the next block beyond the west end of the siding. Did you ever issue orders for meets like that? Also, you indicated that you worked as an operator at Storrs Jct and offices West. Was there a District or regional divide there? When I worked with the PRR, some of my assignments were at Loveland where the Cincinnati and Xenia (PRR) crossed the B&O but I was not big on remembering names. PRR was removing two diamonds and single tracking through the crossing. To reduce maintenance costs. Back then there were four trains each way through Loveland, 3 St Louis- Washington and 1 Cincinnati-Pittsburgh. You would have had five each way at Storrs, the same 3 plus two Cincinnati-Louisville as they entered and left (CUT) Cincinnati Union Station. Did you ever go to tower A at CUT?
At the time St. Louis Division ORT (Order of Railroad Telegraphers) seniority roster had 'rights' to all operator jobs in Cincinnati Terminal, except for Cincinnati Jct which was covered by the Toledo Divison seniority roster. Cincinnati Terminal had it's own Dispatchers Office as a part of the Ohio (operating) Division and was located in Cincinnati. The St. Louis (operating) Division's Dispatchers office was in Washington, IN and controlled from Storrs Jct to Cone Yard East St. Louis. Back in those days it could get confusing in how craft seniority districts overlayed and worked with railroad operating divisions.
Storrs Jct was staffed with a Train Order Operator and a Switchtender who handled to various crossover switches that permitted operation of the B&O's double track line into the various yards of Cincinnati as well as operation into Cincinnati Union Terminal for both B&O and NYC trains. The NYC passenger train (the James Whitcomb Riley) operated into and out of CUT, crossing over both B&O mains to reach the NYC tracks that led West from Storrs Jct. Occasionally, because of terminal congestion, the B&O Trailer Jet's were operated through CUT trackage. B&O merchandise trains were worked at Brighton and/or Mill Creek Yards when destined to points East of Cincinnati and to Yard A when destined to Toledo Division points. During my period of working Storrs Jct the only passenger trains being operated to CUT were the National Limited, the Metropolitan Limited and the James Whitcomb Riley. Service to Louisville had ended prior to my working at Storrs Jct.
The only jobs I worked in Cincinnati were Storrs Jct and the Switchtender position at 8th Street. The operator at Cincinnai Jct was the 'supervisor' for the 8th Street switchtender's position whcih control the leads to NYC trackage, SOU trackage as well as the leads to Brighton, Mill Creek and Yard A. This area was totally revamped so as to be unrecognizable with the creation of Queensgate Yard in the early 1980's.
Monon F7 doing street running (Indiana Transportation Museum).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53NFd5hzmLY
Does Amtrak's Hoosier State run on the former Monon?
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