Minutes of the NGEC ( agency controlling NS Nippon purchases ) says North Carolina might buy 5 of the cars. Seems far fetched but who knows ?
From the minutes ------------
Allan Paul, NCDOT, announced that they have received federal funds to acquire 5 bi-level cars. NCDOT would like to use the NGEC’s Bi-Level Car Specification and “modify it as needed for our spec”. The Bi-Level cars are going to be used with their single level fleet, so it will be necessary to match the two vehicle types up. The intent is to use the NGEC specification and “cut and paste” to transpose slightly to the NCDOT car.
Wow that would be great news, keep us posted.
They do really need to expand that order for bi-level corridor cars. Wisconsin should be getting close to replacing the Horizon cars used on Chicago to Milwaukee and I would think they need cars as well for planned expansion of service to the Twin Cities at some point.
I can understand that NC needs the lower end doors to match their current equipment.
However, the concept that each transit agency can spec its own equipment strikes me as wasteful and leading to much higher per unit costs. It is an easier manufacturing process if the number of options is as limited as possible. Remember the lesson GM's EMD taught the railroad industry 70 years ago -- individual order options should be pretty much limited to the paint job.
There's probably still some old VRE bilevels bouncing around the market.
They appear to have lower end doors to join with single-level cars, but VRE doesn't do that since they own no single-level cars. Also, the platform-facing doors are for stations with low-level platforms or no platforms.
I just checked their web site. They're getting rid of their old "Gallery Cars," as they call them, in 2018, so even more ex-VRE coaches are joining the second-hand market.
http://www.vre.org/service/rider/consist/
aegrotatio There's probably still some old VRE bilevels bouncing around the market. They appear to have lower end doors to join with single-level cars, but VRE doesn't do that since they own no single-level cars. Also, the platform-facing doors are for stations with low-level platforms or no platforms. I just checked their web site. They're getting rid of their old "Gallery Cars," as they call them, in 2018, so even more ex-VRE coaches are joining the second-hand market. http://www.vre.org/service/rider/consist/
All the "old" Gallery cars on VRE are former METRA. These are based on designs developed by the CB&Q and the C&NW. These cars were equipped with AAR standard end door height doors to be able to train with single level commuter cars which were still in service. The gallery design is not compatable with the higher end door design pioneered I believe by the hi level El Cap equipment.
The VRE equipment acquired from METRA consisted of both ex CNW cars and ex RI cars. Not sure if they have any RI cars left, many went to Nashville. Some cars have been sold back to METRA and are currently in use.
And why pray tell would NCDOT want to acquire 60 year old non stainless rolling stock with the attendant corrosion and possible fatigue issues and commuter interiors for other than a short term solution. If that's the road they wanted to go down they would probably be better off with the slightly older Stainless ex Q cars sitting up in Michigan for the stillborn Detroit commuter service.
I reread the message chain and it looks like North Carolina is planning on purchasing new bilevel cars manufactured by Nippon Sharyo.
081552 I reread the message chain and it looks like North Carolina is planning on purchasing new bilevel cars manufactured by Nippon Sharyo.
yup that how it started, lots of Monday Morning Quaterbacking going on.
BuslistAnd why pray tell would NCDOT want to acquire 60 year old non stainless rolling stock with the attendant corrosion and possible fatigue issues and commuter interiors for other than a short term solution. If that's the road they wanted to go down they would probably be better off with the slightly older Stainless ex Q cars sitting up in Michigan for the stillborn Detroit commuter service.
Honestly, NONE of the gallery-style cars, including the fairly new ones are really good. I rode one way on an old P-S one (possibly once used on MARC) one way and a Nippon-Sharyo the return. The P-S rode better and was quieter, though it seemed shopworn.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Even stainless steel cars can be subject to corrision. They are not all stainless and the quality of stainless can vary greatly. It has been reported that some Amfleet cars are suffering from corrision. It appears that the salt used to melt snow in the vestibules is causing the regular steel draft gear to corrode. How much if any is unknown but suspect that some of our posters can either verify or debunk ?
schlimm Buslist And why pray tell would NCDOT want to acquire 60 year old non stainless rolling stock with the attendant corrosion and possible fatigue issues and commuter interiors for other than a short term solution. If that's the road they wanted to go down they would probably be better off with the slightly older Stainless ex Q cars sitting up in Michigan for the stillborn Detroit commuter service. Honestly, NONE of the gallery-style cars, including the fairly new ones are really good. I rode one way on an old P-S one (possibly once used on MARC) one way and a Nippon-Sharyo the return. The P-S rode better and was quieter, though it seemed shopworn. P
Buslist And why pray tell would NCDOT want to acquire 60 year old non stainless rolling stock with the attendant corrosion and possible fatigue issues and commuter interiors for other than a short term solution. If that's the road they wanted to go down they would probably be better off with the slightly older Stainless ex Q cars sitting up in Michigan for the stillborn Detroit commuter service.
there is no technical reason why with properly specified trucks a gallery car should ride worse than a double deck car. In fact with what is probably a higher CofG the double deck car will be more of a challenge to spec properly.
schlimm Buslist And why pray tell would NCDOT want to acquire 60 year old non stainless rolling stock with the attendant corrosion and possible fatigue issues and commuter interiors for other than a short term solution. If that's the road they wanted to go down they would probably be better off with the slightly older Stainless ex Q cars sitting up in Michigan for the stillborn Detroit commuter service. Honestly, NONE of the gallery-style cars, including the fairly new ones are really good. I rode one way on an old P-S one (possibly once used on MARC) one way and a Nippon-Sharyo the return. The P-S rode better and was quieter, though it seemed shopworn.
I've ridden bi levels in North America (California cars, El Cap cars, Bombardier commuter cars, east coast style cars [MBTA etc.]), European versions in France, Germany, Italy, Austria and Finland, Sydney commuter sets, Bi level Green Cars on JR East in the Tokyo network and on the BiLevel Shinkansens. Honestly my favorite place to ride is in the single seats on the upper level of gallery cars. Lots of personal space, no claustraphobic low ceiling, quiet seats aligned with the windows no 3-2 seating if you don't get upstairs ( not fundamental to bilevel but most seem to have it in commuter service). Did that ride last Tuesday still as good as I remember it. The only down side is the awkward stairs to the upper level.
blue streak 1 Even stainless steel cars can be subject to corrision. They are not all stainless and the quality of stainless can vary greatly. It has been reported that some Amfleet cars are suffering from corrision. It appears that the salt used to melt snow in the vestibules is causing the regular steel draft gear to corrode. How much if any is unknown but suspect that some of our posters can either verify or debunk ?
Yes I think I was one that reported it earlier this week.
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