I have booked a cross-country train trip in January, and my ticket shows that I am in roomette 2 on the Empire Builder eastbound as well as westbound. Will this room be facing the same scenery, or does the train get turned around?
In the July Trains, an article on the Twentieth Century Limited comments that certain cars always had to have the rooms facing the Hudson River, and that this was a logistical problem. In fact, isn't it true that those cars do not need to be turned, and wouldn't this be simpler?
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood." Daniel Burnham
Well I saw on youtube they wye the Rocky Mountaineer in Seattle, so I looked there and this is what I found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWSoESxPXyI
This is interesting so the proximity of the wye to the station in Seattle means it must be cheaper or operationally more efficient to use the wye than disconnecting and reconnecting the locomotives.
Maglev I have booked a cross-country train trip in January, and my ticket shows that I am in roomette 2 on the Empire Builder eastbound as well as westbound. Will this room be facing the same scenery, or does the train get turned around? In the July Trains, an article on the Twentieth Century Limited comments that certain cars always had to have the rooms facing the Hudson River, and that this was a logistical problem. In fact, isn't it true that those cars do not need to be turned, and wouldn't this be simpler?
Are the last two digits of the car number the same for both trips? If so, you may find that you will have the other view on the return. But--if you are returning on a different set of equipment, you may find that you are looking at the same direction for the return trip.
I have the impression that Amtrak operation is concerned with getting the cars on the train and not so much with the direction that the cars are facing--except for the car with accomodations for onboard service personnel (which does have roomettes for travelers; I have been assigned one). Spin a coin, and watch it spin until you have boarded on the return trip.
I'm sorry, but I could not assure you of what you will find, unless you have been assigned a roomette in the first sleeper (then you will know that you will have the other view on the return trip), for there are too many variables. If I knew the number of your car, I could be more definite.
Johnny
CMStPnP Well I saw on youtube they wye the Rocky Mountaineer in Seattle, so I looked there and this is what I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWSoESxPXyI This is interesting so the proximity of the wye to the station in Seattle means it must be cheaper or operationally more efficient to use the wye than disconnecting and reconnecting the locomotives.
Piedmonts are no longer turned. They are running with loco's at each end. The Y in Raleigh has been removed to allow for the construction of the new station.
I only know about the Lake Shore Limited when it comes to current train-turning practices.
For many years the eastbound LSL had its bedrooms facing south and then west, meaning the folks in the bedrooms and even-numbered roomettes enjoyed the stunning "Water Level" view of the 140 miles between Albany and Penn Station. For the same number of years the LSL was apparently turned in the Sunnyside Yards so that the westbound trains were operated with the passengers in the bedrooms and even-numbered roomettes facing, not the Lordly Hudson (isn't that an apt name?), but almost always, a cliff or a much more uninteresting view.
My last two trips westbound, however, had me in bedrooms that were in apparently unturned trains, and I got to see the river westbound, not the cliff, leading me to wonder if the LSL is still regularly turned at Sunnyside.
But here's my advice: Ask the car attendant if he/she has an open or unoccupied room that you can sit in for the distance of the view you'd like. Often when I travel in a bedroom on the LSL I ask if there's an open roomette facing the Hudson. Not infrequently I'm in luck, and I'm therefore able to spend the hours before dinner facing this wonderful river valley and its Catskill mountains while I listen to my music on headphones and enjoy my Dewar's and munch on Planter's Cocktail Peanuts (it's not my fault they taste so good together!).
If the car attendant is able to help you out that should be taken into consideration at tip-time when you disembark.
Both the Ethan Allen and the Vermonter go thru a WYE and some complcated switching that can take a hour when freight and passenger is in the same small yards of Rutland and Saint Albans
New Orleans automatically turn the full compliment due to the train entering a baloon track before backing into the station. After arrival MIA the train backs up then goes around a baloon track. The Eagle noses into CHI. Equipment is pulled back to 14th st then pulls forward into station to be the CNO. It then backs out of CHI to be able to go forward over the St. Charles Air Line.
The CNO reverses this operation so backs into CHI and then later makes the Eagle going forward. Any car substitution at CHI ???. Once the grand connection is in service this will have to change.
Auto train does not reverse train at either Sanford or Lorton but does mix the consists after termination . Off topic the arrangement at the two terminals enable cars to load forward on and off load forward off. So no turning of the auto carriers.
blue streak 1 New Orleans automatically turn the full compliment due to the train entering a baloon track before backing into the station. After arrival MIA the train backs up then goes around a baloon track. The Eagle noses into CHI. Equipment is pulled back to 14th st then pulls forward into station to be the CNO. It then backs out of CHI to be able to go forward over the St. Charles Air Line. The CNO reverses this operation so backs into CHI and then later makes the Eagle going forward. Any car substitution at CHI ???. Once the grand connection is in service this will have to change. Auto train does not reverse train at either Sanford or Lorton but does mix the consists after termination . Off topic the arrangement at the two terminals enable cars to load forward on and off load forward off. So no turning of the auto carriers.
Deggesty blue streak 1 New Orleans automatically turn the full compliment due to the train entering a baloon track before backing into the station. Has a balloon track replaced the wye in New Orleans? The last time (two years ago) I went down from Chicago, we turned on the wye that was there.
blue streak 1 New Orleans automatically turn the full compliment due to the train entering a baloon track before backing into the station.
New Orleans automatically turn the full compliment due to the train entering a baloon track before backing into the station.
Has a balloon track replaced the wye in New Orleans? The last time (two years ago) I went down from Chicago, we turned on the wye that was there.
Deggestry: If you have a SPV atlas of New Orleans it might help. Actually we are both correct. There is one track ( going SE ) now from Carrolton Ave to just NW of the Amtrak maintenance facility. Normally trains veer off to the SW and rejoin the track from Carrollton Ave headed NW. They then back up about 3/4 mile past the Amtrak maintenance facility to Union Terminal. However they can go the other way around the balloon and back up on another tail track on the other side of the Maintenance facility.
Now if the balloon is blocked for any reason then it is more complicated. Crescent would have to proceed over old NOT tracks to NOT junction then back past Shrewsbury yard ( KCS ) thru Carrollton to NOUT.
CNO & Sunset trains would have to proceed to east city junction then back up thru Carrollton Ave to NOUT. Since my SPV is 2001 there were plans to combine the Carrollton AVe to trains could wye there if needed. Used to be DT from there to NOUT but only single MT now.
So you may have gone over wye if Balloon track was blocked ??
Trains leaving NOT can proceed out either balloon leg unless things have changed since being there. Anyone ?
This is somewhat the arrangement that would be IMHO ideal if a new ATL station is ever built in Chamblee. Two tracks in with balloon between and two legs out. Both joining somewhere beyond. Balloon could go around station itself.
Thanks, Streak. However, looking at the SPV (2001) map of New Orleans, I find it difficult to see a balloon track--unless the section of the wye between the NW switch and the West switch is a part of the balloon.
I haven't been to New Orleans in more than two years, but I recall the simple movement around from the NW switch to the West switch and then backing in--as I recall in all but two earlier (from 1960 on) trips. The first of those two trips, I slept in in the LA-NY car; in 2003, we headed into the station because we were about two hours late coming from Chicago.
I know of one other arrival which brought the Panama directly in: there was a strike on the IC in the sixties, and supervisory personnel brought the train in from McComb--and did not want to risk hitting the bumper while backing in.
Deggesty Yes, the trains are turned at their destinations--so that the roomettes that are on the north side going one way are on the south side returning. But--it is not unusual to walk from one sleeper to the next, and find that one car has the roomettes at the front, and the next car has the roomettes at the rear, which means that a particular roomette in one car is on the north side, and the roomette with the same number is on the south side. Are the last two digits of the car number the same for both trips? If so, you may find that you will have the other view on the return. But--if you are returning on a different set of equipment, you may find that you are looking at the same direction for the return trip. I have the impression that Amtrak operation is concerned with getting the cars on the train and not so much with the direction that the cars are facing--except for the car with accomodations for onboard service personnel (which does have roomettes for travelers; I have been assigned one). Spin a coin, and watch it spin until you have boarded on the return trip. I'm sorry, but I could not assure you of what you will find, unless you have been assigned a roomette in the first sleeper (then you will know that you will have the other view on the return trip), for there are too many variables. If I knew the number of your car, I could be more definite.
Yes, the trains are turned at their destinations--so that the roomettes that are on the north side going one way are on the south side returning. But--it is not unusual to walk from one sleeper to the next, and find that one car has the roomettes at the front, and the next car has the roomettes at the rear, which means that a particular roomette in one car is on the north side, and the roomette with the same number is on the south side.
Thanks to everyone for your replies!
Actually, on the Empire Builder, I am on the Seattle section eastbound and the Portland section westbound, so you're right--I guess it is a coin toss. But on the Silver Meteor, I am in room 2 of car 9710 southbound and car 9812 northbound, and I see Blue Streak commented that this train is turned in Miami.
I just rode the City of New Orleans recently and I had Roomette #6 on both trips, same car. And I did see different scenery on northbound than I did on southbound. I could tell when we passed Lake P leaving NOLA. The sleeper car was at the head end of train on both trips, not at the rear. My attendant said people in coach were complaining about hearing train horns so they changed the setup. I'd never been in sleeper that wasn't on rear, so new experience for me. Don't know if the other LD trains have changed too or it was just the City. I enjoyed hearing the horns but then I'm a railfan.
I don't think that the sleepers were moved forward to keep it quieter for the coach passengers. On my last two trips (this past spring), I noticed that the sleepers on the California Zephyr, which had been on the rear on all of my previous trips, were right behind the car with the onboard service sleeping accommodations and overflow roomettes for pasengers. Placing the sleepers together does make it easier for the passengers in that car--they are a little closer to the diner, and they do not have to hunt for their car after finding the other sleepers. They do get to hear more of the horn--and it seems to me that the passengers who pay more should have less disturbance at night.
Now, when going east, I have to pass most of the train to get to my car instead of finding it at the rear of the train (and when coming home from the east I no longer have to walk almost the entire length of the train).
From approximately September until June, the transition sleeper and the regular (through) sleeper on the Texas Eagle are just behind the baggage car.
From approximately June 1 until the middle of September the transition sleeper is just behind the baggage car, but the regular or through sleeper is at the rear of the train.
One of the San Antonio conductors told me that they place the through sleeper at the back of the train during the summer because of the heat. He said - I have not verified his comments - that the electrical connection to power the air in the car in San Antonio while it is waiting to be transferred to the Sunset Limited is located near the back of the Eagle when it pulls into the station.
I have not seen the Sunset Limited this summer, but last summer it was configured the same way, with the New Orleans/LAX sleeper behind the baggage car and the through sleeper at the rear of the train.
The turning of the Texas Eagle in San Antonio is a bit different than one might imagine. The train pulls into the San Antonio station. If it has through cars, they are taken off the train and put onto the Sunset Limited when it arrives in the wee hours of the morning.
Upon its 7:00 a.m. departure, the Eagle backs out of the station along the UP's east/west main until it reaches a point - I have forgotten the name of the switch - where it can begin its run northward to Chicago. So it is turned, but not the way I imagine a train being turned. Having lived in New York City for many years, I think of how the trains are turned at Sunnyside Yard, which basically consists of running through a reversing loop under the main east/west tracks.
Speaking of sleeping cars, I wonder how we came to call them sleepers. Altough it has been more than 4 decades since I have ridden on an over night train, if I remember correctly, people in the coachs sleep. Perhaps not as comfortably as those in a room car, but most of the coach passengers get some sleep. I wonder why the sleeping cars in America are not called room cars or bed cars or something like that?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
Quoting JPS1: "Speaking of sleeping cars, I wonder how we came to call them sleepers. Altough it has been more than 4 decades since I have ridden on an over night train, if I remember correctly, people in the coachs sleep. Perhaps not as comfortably as those in a room car, but most of the coach passengers get some sleep. I wonder why the sleeping cars in America are not called room cars or bed cars or something like that?"
Perhaps because you sleep much better in a berth than in a coach seat, even one with legrests? If you ever spent a night in a coach without reclining seats, you would really appreciate a berth. Reclining seats were a great improvement; adjustable footrests also were an improvement; legrests (I wonder why only western roads' coaches had them?) even more so--and a berth makes it possible to rest much better than even the coach seats on the western streamliners did.
Sleeping cars on the "Empire Builder" are both at the front (Seattle) and rear (Portland) of the train. Presumably, this is to facilitate the splitting of the train at Spokane in the middle of the night. At any rate, my wife and I both managed to sleep right through that operation.
CSSHEGEWISCH Sleeping cars on the "Empire Builder" are both at the front (Seattle) and rear (Portland) of the train. Presumably, this is to facilitate the splitting of the train at Spokane in the middle of the night. At any rate, my wife and I both managed to sleep right through that operation.
I have slept through both San Antonio and Spokane without being aware of the switching.
Sunnyland I just rode the City of New Orleans recently and I had Roomette #6 on both trips, same car. And I did see different scenery on northbound than I did on southbound. I could tell when we passed Lake P leaving NOLA. The sleeper car was at the head end of train on both trips, not at the rear. My attendant said people in coach were complaining about hearing train horns so they changed the setup. I'd never been in sleeper that wasn't on rear, so new experience for me. Don't know if the other LD trains have changed too or it was just the City. I enjoyed hearing the horns but then I'm a railfan.
They can adjust the volume of the horns on the Amtrak locos as well. I noticed they are a LOT louder in the day than at night on some Amtrak LD trains. Other Amtrak LD trains..........same volume regardless. So I wonder if it is type of locomotive or engineer discretion on the volume of the horn?
Deggestry: If I remember correcdtly, the 44-passenger Juniata-built long-distance PRR coaches for the Trail Blazer, Jeffersonian, REd Arrow, and a few other east-west trains had leg rests. One reason voernight in a PRR coach was a happier expreicne than the Central. But these coaches rusted out in about 15 years (1948-1963) and were scrapped, with their trucks and other equipment going into sturdy rebuilt P-70's that did not have them and had higher capacitiy.
I think a least some of the lightweight coaches of the Southern, SAL, and ACL had them also.
Thanks, Dave; I was unaware of that. There might have been a note concerning this in Trains in 1948--but I was unaware of the publication at that time.
CMStPnP They can adjust the volume of the horns on the Amtrak locos as well. I noticed they are a LOT louder in the day than at night on some Amtrak LD trains. Other Amtrak LD trains..........same volume regardless. So I wonder if it is type of locomotive or engineer discretion on the volume of the horn?
My Amtrak friends tell me the horn buttons hav two positions half depressed and fully depressed. Medium air pressure at half, full pressure at full. So it's the engineers choice.
If you look at the engine, it will give you a idea weather or not the whole train is turned, now the Crescent is not turned at New Orleans, I have seen video of the tran going south and back north, and you can see that the baggage car was on the front of the train and going back north , it is now on the back of the train, and all they did was to do a run around with the engines, seeing that they were back to back, so the rear engine is now the lead engine, this is now done in a lot of places to do without a turntable, at first, and than to save time, and money, by not having to turn the train around, if it become that the baggage is needed at the front, than it will be with the run around, and when they had road-railers, they were at the rear of the train, so that they could be drop and another pick-up, had this done on the Capital Limited go back to Washington DC, it took them about 30 minutes to do the switching, before we got moving again.
trains577 If you look at the engine, it will give you a idea weather or not the whole train is turned, now the Crescent is not turned at New Orleans, I have seen video of the tran going south and back north, and you can see that the baggage car was on the front of the train and going back north , it is now on the back of the train, and all they did was to do a run around with the engines, seeing that they were back to back, so the rear engine is now the lead engine, this is now done in a lot of places to do without a turntable, at first, and than to save time, and money, by not having to turn the train around, if it become that the baggage is needed at the front, than it will be with the run around, and when they had road-railers, they were at the rear of the train, so that they could be drop and another pick-up, had this done on the Capital Limited go back to Washington DC, it took them about 30 minutes to do the switching, before we got moving again.
Well, I am really going to reveal my ignorance here. But do all the seats in the coaches face the same direction? All of my recent trips on long-distance trains have been in sleepers. Not long ago I was on a Cascades Talgo, and I seem to remember that half the seats faced one way and half the other way. I do not think these trains are turned at their destination.
Maybe the turn at NOL wye loop could not happen if the loop was unuseable for some reeason ? The loop is a very tight curve.
The coach seats on most of the Superliner's face forward. I believe the same is true for the coach seats on the single level cars on the long distance trains in the east.
One exception that I am aware of is the Heartland Flyer, which has three coaches. Half the seats face forward and half face rearward, depending on the direction of travel. The Flyer is not turned at its end points.
Individual seat pairs on Superliners and Amfleet (both I and II) can be rotated without removing them. It's not an easy task, so it's not done any more than absolutely necessary.
rcdrye Individual seat pairs on Superliners and Amfleet (both I and II) can be rotated without removing them. It's not an easy task, so it's not done any more than absolutely necessary.
In the last years (from 1968 on) that the Terminal Station in Atlanta was used, the coach seats on the Southern Crescent would be turned since the former backup moves were no longer made. The seats on the Victoria-Courtenay RDC's were turned at each end.
Now, back to Amtrak's operation.
I rode the Southwest Chief two years ago and the coaches were on the rear. Upon arrival in Los Angeles, I go off in San Bernardino, they apparently turned the whole train on the wye. Going back east that evening on the same equipment had the same order of cars: baggage, sleepers, diner, Superlounge, and coaches on the rear.
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