Freight diesels on Amtrak

[NP Eddie]

ALL:

I watched an 8 hour late #8 through Anoka, MN about 20 minutes ago. It had a BNSF locomotive on the point followed by one Amtrak locomotive.

If my memory serves me correctly, the maximum speed for the BNSF high horsepower locomotive is 70 MPH. The next question is regarding the HEP to the train. If both Amtrak locomotives go belly up, does the train still receive HEP from the dead in tow locomotivves? In today's train, would the HEP on one Amtrak locomotive provide enough power for the entire train? The final question, will the BNSF locomotive be switched off at St. Paul and a CP locomotive added to the head end?

Ed Burns

Happily retired NP-BN-BNSF from Minneapolis.

 

[VerMontanan]

Ed:

This particular Empire Builder encountered a loaded semi-tractor trailer full of fertilizer just east of Wenatchee, WA.  This is the Seattle section of the train and only had 7 cars and indeed was operated with just one locomotive over the Cascades.  The derailment put the Amtrak unit out of commission, and after inspecting the train for flat wheels, was towed without any head end power from that location to Spokane with the BNSF freight unit that is still on the train.  At Spokane, the Amtrak locomotive off train 28 (and its 4 cars) was added, so that locomotive provided head-end power to the entire train east of Spokane.  The BNSF locomotive on the train will continue the entire trip to Chicago.  If a failure occurs on train 7 between Chicago and St. Paul and a CP unit is added, it is replaced by a BNSF unit at St. Paul (or Midway Station).  If a failure occurs on train 8/28 west of St. Paul and a BNSF unit is added, it goes all the way to Chicago.

When an Amtrak unit is dead, it's dead and can't provide head end power.  If it cannot provide tractive effort but is still running, it often can provide head end power to the train.  It just depends on the particular defect.  

 

--Mark Meyer

[NP Eddie]

Mark:

Thanks for the information. What happens is both Amtrak diesels go dead, say around Whitefish or Havre, etc. does Amtrak have a Plan "B" to have alternative HEP for the train?

Ed Burns

[VerMontanan]

Nope, they're pretty much SOL until the next Amtrak train wanders by and can donate one....

[MidlandMike]

If there is no HEP, does the plumbing work?  Presuming some of the lights have battery back-up, how long would they last?

[rcdrye]

MidlandMike

If there is no HEP, does the plumbing work?

It doesn't - at least the toilets don't flush.  Drinking water tanks are normally pressurized, so as long as the air doesn't all leak off, the water sill plows. 

[PJS1]

VerMontanan

Nope, they're pretty much SOL until the next Amtrak train wanders by and can donate one....

Amtrak has contracts with motor coach operators to provide alternative transportation in case one of its long distance train schedules is disrupted while the train is enroute. 

Several weeks ago the southbound Texas Eagle was terminated at Fort Worth because of a wreck near Taylor, and the northbound Eagle never left San Antonio. Passengers were bused from San Antonio to Fort Worth and vice versa.  According to a business partner in Fort Worth, the buses were ready to go within two hours of being contacted by Amtrak.

I would be surprised if Amtrak does not have arrangements with its host freight railroads to provide a locomotive if its power breaks down.

[BaltACD]

JPS1

VerMontanan

Nope, they're pretty much SOL until the next Amtrak train wanders by and can donate one....

...

I would be surprised if Amtrak does not have arrangements with its host freight railroads to provide a locomotive if its power breaks down.

My carrier, has no such agreement.  We will provide power when the derelect Amtrak train is blocking our operations - IF (and it is a BIG IF) there is excess power in the area.  Freight power has NO HEP capability.  Most Amtrak LD trains on my carrier have 2 engines, some NE Regional's only have one.  Most current freight locomotives cannot enter Washington Union Station from the South account clearance restrictions.  The reality is that the Class 1 carriers have more than enough problems finding power for trains when their own power fails enroute.

[Expressman's Kid]

In July 1991, my family was aboard the now defunct Pioneer powered by two F40PH headed east from Portland for Chicago on the Union Pacific.  Approximately two hour east of Portland, crossing the high plains desert, the air conditioning and lights began cycling off and on.  Shortly, the air conditioning and lights went out for good.  The conductor informed us on the PA that we had lost one of our locomotives because of a clogged fuel filter.  The remaining locomotive could not provide both electrical power and locomotion.  The choice was to sit in the desert with the lights and air conditioning on or continue on in the dark and heat.  The conductor told us he had chosen the latter for us.

Upon reaching Union Pacific’s Hinkle Yard, a UP freight locomotive was attached to head the train and power was restored. The conductor said that the freight locomotive (did not say what type) could only go 62 mph vs our F40PH’s 79 mph.  In essence we would be losing about 20 miles per hour of travel time meaning that we would arrive in Denver four hours late. Which we did.  There was supposed to be a four hour layover for a meet with the California Zephyr. So, since we were going to be four hours late, we should be back on schedule.  Not a chance, because the Zephyr was four hours late.  We left Denver four hours late and never made it up, but didn’t lose any more time either.  We arrived in Chicago at 10 pm just in time for Amtrak to go on strike.  We continued by Greyhound the balance of our trip to Akron, Ohio.  Bummer.

I don’t know what type and number of power was put on at Denver but I observed on the speedometer in the last car that we were doing 79 mph on the rough riding Burlington Northern track.

"Mom! 99 is blowing for 16th Street.  Dad will be home soon."

 

 

[BaltACD]

Expressman's Kid

In July 1991, ....

 

Upon reaching Union Pacific’s Hinkle Yard, a UP freight locomotive was attached to head the train and power was restored. The conductor said that the freight locomotive (did not say what type) could only go 62 mph vs our F40PH’s 79 mph.  In essence we would be losing about 20 miles per hour of travel time meaning that we would arrive in Denver four hours late.

Most Class 1 road locomotives are geared for at least a 70 MPH maximum speed, although some 1st generation locomotives were purchased specifically for helper service and were geared for a lower maximum speed.  I would have expected most of those to have been scrapped by the time of your 1991 journey.