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Lake Shore Limited Running with one locomotive

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Posted by PJS1 on Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:34 AM

Electroliner 1935
schlimm

Typical consist is:

NYC - 1 baggage, 4 coach, 1 diner, 2 viewliner sleepers; (7) +

BOS 1 coach, 1 viewliner sleeper, 1 lounge, 1 baggage. (4)

Total of 11 cars.

Where are you seeing the LSL, It normally used one unit on each section East of Albany/Rensselaer and two west thereof.

Does the LSL have two baggage cars - Boston and New York -from Albany to Chicago?  Or is the baggage from Boston transfered to the New York to Chicago baggage car?

I have looked into the baggage car on the Sunset Limited when it is in El Paso.  On a busy day the baggage or like stuff may take up 1/4 of the car. It is hard to believe that Amtrak could justify two baggage cars on the LSL.

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:38 AM

Buslist

 

 
schlimm

on Metra F 40s have only 3300 hp and haul 8 bi-levels that carry many passengers. 

 

 

 

on an essentially flat railroad, remember a 1% grade increases resistance by about 300%, so you couldn't expect similar performance everywhere.

 

The LSL largely runs on the "Water Level Route" NYP-CUS.  And on Metra, there are some gradients, though pretty minor.

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Posted by Buslist on Thursday, June 30, 2016 1:25 PM

Ya but!

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, June 30, 2016 1:53 PM

schlimm
on Metra F 40s have only 3300 hp and haul 8 bi-levels that carry many passengers

The BNSF Metra rush hour trains that run express to Downers Grove and Naperville have eleven cars and are full. Routinely cruise at 70 mph and the cars are heated/cooled with the HEP. True, the racetrack has little grade issues but the F40's do a great job.

I love watching them come through Fairview where the locals flip (cross from track 1 to track 3) after their Fairview stop and return to Chicago, The Naperville Express cruises through at 70 mph on track 2, followed four minutes later by the Downers Grove Express that slows to 45 mph to cross from track 2 to 1 to make its first stop at Downers Grove. And when Amtrak 4 or 6 is late and gets into the rush hour, I've watched Ft Worth get them through the mix. Amtrak EB on track 2 and the Naperville Express WB on track 2 and the xpress slows while Amtrak crosses to track 3 and continues to Chicago while the Express continues to Naperville loosing about one minute. 

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:04 PM

schlimm

 

 
Buslist

 

 
schlimm

on Metra F 40s have only 3300 hp and haul 8 bi-levels that carry many passengers. 

 

 

 

on an essentially flat railroad, remember a 1% grade increases resistance by about 300%, so you couldn't expect similar performance everywhere.

 

 

 

The LSL largely runs on the "Water Level Route" NYP-CUS.  And on Metra, there are some gradients, though pretty minor.

 

Steepest grade from Rensselaer to Chicago is West Albany hill.  It's bit more than 1% westbound, if I remember right.  Westbound, I think it's 0.7% getting away from Lake Erie from Buffalo to Batavia.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:22 PM

Electroliner 1935

 

 
schlimm
on Metra F 40s have only 3300 hp and haul 8 bi-levels that carry many passengers

 

The BNSF Metra rush hour trains that run express to Downers Grove and Naperville have eleven cars and are full. Routinely cruise at 70 mph and the cars are heated/cooled with the HEP. True, the racetrack has little grade issues but the F40's do a great job.

I love watching them come through Fairview where the locals flip (cross from track 1 to track 3) after their Fairview stop and return to Chicago, The Naperville Express cruises through at 70 mph on track 2, followed four minutes later by the Downers Grove Express that slows to 45 mph to cross from track 2 to 1 to make its first stop at Downers Grove. And when Amtrak 4 or 6 is late and gets into the rush hour, I've watched Ft Worth get them through the mix. Amtrak EB on track 2 and the Naperville Express WB on track 2 and the xpress slows while Amtrak crosses to track 3 and continues to Chicago while the Express continues to Naperville loosing about one minute. 

 

The 11 Metra bi-levels sounds like at least as big a load as the 11 cars (Viewliner I or IIs or Horizons or Heritage) on the LSL.

So is the previous use of two engines on the LSL to provide HEP or is it a function of unreliablility (for whatever causes)?

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:42 PM

schlimm

 

 
Electroliner 1935

 

 
schlimm
on Metra F 40s have only 3300 hp and haul 8 bi-levels that carry many passengers

 

The BNSF Metra rush hour trains that run express to Downers Grove and Naperville have eleven cars and are full. Routinely cruise at 70 mph and the cars are heated/cooled with the HEP. True, the racetrack has little grade issues but the F40's do a great job.

I love watching them come through Fairview where the locals flip (cross from track 1 to track 3) after their Fairview stop and return to Chicago, The Naperville Express cruises through at 70 mph on track 2, followed four minutes later by the Downers Grove Express that slows to 45 mph to cross from track 2 to 1 to make its first stop at Downers Grove. And when Amtrak 4 or 6 is late and gets into the rush hour, I've watched Ft Worth get them through the mix. Amtrak EB on track 2 and the Naperville Express WB on track 2 and the xpress slows while Amtrak crosses to track 3 and continues to Chicago while the Express continues to Naperville loosing about one minute. 

 

 

 

The 11 Metra bi-levels sounds like at least as big a load as the 11 cars (Viewliner I or IIs or Horizons or Heritage) on the LSL.

So is the previous use of two engines on the LSL to provide HEP or is it a function of unreliablility (for whatever causes)?

 

Tradition?

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, July 1, 2016 8:59 AM

For whatever reason dating back to F40PH days the Lake Shore's Chicago-Albany locomotives continued on to Boston, with the New York section getting a dual-mode FL9 or P32AC-DM between Albany and New York.  During the rebuilding of Albany-Renssalaer the Boston section has been running as a Boston-Albany shuttle, so the P42 (or P42s) get turned at ALB.  Except for West Albany Hill, for which a single P42 has enough oomph, the Chicago-Albany route is pretty flat.  NS and CSX seem to be OK with single unit operation.

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Posted by northeaster on Thursday, July 7, 2016 2:15 PM

As a somewhat frequent Lake Shore rider from/to Syracuse/Chicago, for about 14 years, it has been nice to see her get improvements with resulting better performance. My last trip was two weeks ago, single baggage car and single engine. I would guess the baggage is transferred from the Boston shuttle to the single car at Albany. I am also guessing (someone can correct this) that when two engines are in use, both can deliver via their traction motors acceleration and dynamic braking thereby making for faster running speed out of stations/signals. It seemed to me that on the last trip with the single engine the train was a bit slower on acceleration but was fine cruising. Maybe when there is snow/ice on the tracks this will become a more serious problem?

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Posted by timz on Thursday, July 7, 2016 3:21 PM

A P42 will eventually reach 79 mph with 20+ cars on the level. Acceleration is the only problem.

You've seen pics of the 12-car Super Chief pulled by 4500 hp-- wonder how often SFe gave it that.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 10, 2016 10:53 AM

Perhaps this explains the need for two units, at least when using P42s.

The P42DC (GENESIS Series I)[13] is the successor model to the P40DC. It has an engine output of 4,250 horsepower(3,170 kW) at 1047 rpm, or 3,550 horsepower (2,650 kW) when running in HEP mode (900 rpm) with a 0 kW HEP load. Traction horsepower in HEP mode decreases to a bare minimum of 2,525 horsepower (1,880 kW) when providing the full 800 kW HEP load to the train. [from Wiki]

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 10, 2016 11:14 AM

The bottom line is on-time performance.  Care to comment?

Not the only factor, of course.

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, July 10, 2016 8:32 PM
According to Amtrak’s Monthly Performance Reports for September 2015, 2014, and 2013, engine failure was responsible for an average of 3.1 per cent of Amtrak’s system wide delay minutes.
 
During the same check periods engine failure caused an average of 2.7 per cent of Amtrak’s long distance delay minutes.
 
Engine failure was the culprit for an average of 3.1 per cent of the Lake Shore Limited delays. 
 
Engine failure was responsible for of an average of 1.7 per cent of the Texas Eagle delays and an average of 2.6 per cent of those for the City of New Orleans.
 
The Texas Eagle and City of New Orleans are pulled by one locomotive. 
 

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Posted by kennys on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:43 AM

schlimm
 
josephr33

I've noticed the Lakeshore Limited is now running with one locomotive.  While it makes for a clean appearance to the train, I can't help but wonder how Amtrak deals with potential breakdowns as well as maintaining track speed with a train that has normally had two locomotives.  Does anyone know what considerations Amtrak makes when assigning locomotives to trains?

 

 

 

How many cars does the LSL usually have?  Fewer now?  Maybe a newer, more powerful locomotive now?

 

schlimm
 
josephr33

I've noticed the Lakeshore Limited is now running with one locomotive.  While it makes for a clean appearance to the train, I can't help but wonder how Amtrak deals with potential breakdowns as well as maintaining track speed with a train that has normally had two locomotives.  Does anyone know what considerations Amtrak makes when assigning locomotives to trains?

 

 

 

How many cars does the LSL usually have?  Fewer now?  Maybe a newer, more powerful locomotive now?

 

schlimm
 
josephr33

I've noticed the Lakeshore Limited is now running with one locomotive.  While it makes for a clean appearance to the train, I can't help but wonder how Amtrak deals with potential breakdowns as well as maintaining track speed with a train that has normally had two locomotives.  Does anyone know what considerations Amtrak makes when assigning locomotives to trains?

 

 

 

How many cars does the LSL usually have?  Fewer now?  Maybe a newer, more powerful locomotive now?

 

The LSL normally has 11 cars total.  baggage, three sleepers, diner, lounge, and five coaches.

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