Hello all ;
didn't know that the humble 'Hoosier' had became a sort of classy streamliner, both inside and out. Of course it looks like an fugitive IC speedster on the former Monon, and it's a pitty this train doesn't uses the old 'Big four/IC' route (at least from Kankakee to Chicago it would be on the 'right' line;) ). If all amtrak trains wrer like this, I'm shure there would be more people using it. I wanna try it
But of course if the train can have a E unit up front, or 2, it will shure looks much better and 'streamliningly' proper (this one is not the Hoosier, but a special train that went to Madison, Ill, again, another fugitive Ic train, this time on the ex Milw)
Not sure if the classier look would get more people to ride, but, from what we hear about the service, that would certainly build up the reputation of trains as THE way to travel!
I kind of have mixed feelings about this experiment. Yes it is fun to have the old equipment back but I think in many cases we are overlooking the shortcommings that a regular passenger would see. For example, malfunctioning and broken down toilets on the youtube videos of the service. Head End power problems on the Trains photos of the service. I am beginning to ask myself if there are any runs where everything works? I know it is a bit unrealistic for Ed Ellis to buy new passenger cars but should the train go out on the road and service passengers with these various issues?
I like the improved dinning car service and it will be interesting to see how much if any of a deficit that generates over a years time. Having run a fast casual restaurant myself you need at least 100-125 paying customers ordering at least one full meal each per day to just break even at a mall location in a major city suburban mall. I think on a train with it's increased costs the number is probably slightly higher.
The Hoosier State runs only 4X/week and averages about 3,000 passengers/month. That works out to ~188 total ridership per run. Given that the total running time is 5 hours between end points, it is unlikely anyone would order more than one meal. So based on your experience, 53-66% of the riders would need to use the dining (one 'n') car. Seems unlikely.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm The Hoosier State runs only 4X/week and averages about 3,000 passengers/month. That works out to ~188 total ridership per run. Given that the total running time is 5 hours between end points, it is unlikely anyone would order more than one meal. So based on your experience, 53-66% of the riders would need to use the dining (one 'n') car. Seems unlikely.
Forgot to add that additionally the meal price would need to be approx $10-12 on average. With the menu prices onboard that were published also seems unlikely they will break even with dining but instead will see a fairly large deficit.
BTW, Trains reports the Hoosier State sidelined again by Amtrak inspectors due to locomotive wheel tolerances. I had thought they fixed that issue once already but apparently not.
ChessieCat123 ... Trains reports the Hoosier State sidelined again by Amtrak inspectors due to locomotive wheel tolerances. I had thought they fixed that issue once already but apparently not. What [the story] should say is that the Iowa Pacific was side lined by Union Men protecting there jobs from scabs aka outside contractors.
... Trains reports the Hoosier State sidelined again by Amtrak inspectors due to locomotive wheel tolerances. I had thought they fixed that issue once already but apparently not.
What [the story] should say is that the Iowa Pacific was side lined by Union Men protecting there jobs from scabs aka outside contractors.
A not unreasonable suspicion. However, needs a comment from Iowa Pacific to give the suspicion "standing," so to speak. Probably IP doesn't want to roil the waters further.
I wonder what IP's appeal is, if any. To the Federal Railroad Administration? The Indiana DOT?
There have been repeated instances of substandard equipment. https://csanders429.wordpress.com/2015/10/31/failed-inspection-sidelines-hoosier-state/
I think that Iowa Pacific's request for an independent third party inspection certainly says that they are somewhat suscpicous.
Amtrak was not happy to lose this contract. By condemning equipment they drive up Indiana's costs for using a private operator, make Iowa Pacific look bad and put more money into Amtrak's pockets. And there is little that Iowa Pacific can do to stop false condemnation if Amtrak is the one inspecting the equipment.
I'd like to think that Amtrak isn't doing that, but that it is happening this often really makes me wonder.
Its hard to judge how Amtrak is doing its inspections but its clear that Iowa pacific has two issues. First the lack of back up equipment. Regardless of the inspection out comes, IP appears to have no back up locomotive's or cars. Even IP people can't expect 100 % equipment utilization. They need to have a back up plan for break downs.
Second trains are going out with issues on the cars including back up toilets, harkens back the days of Penn Central .These kinds of issues can not be tolerated. It might go back to the lack of back up equipment. It might be these classic cars are not up to the rigours of daily service and need to be shopped again. Cars in bad shape will kill what ever positive steps IP is taking.
Let's hope they figure things out quick.
I think it is or would be very unwise for Amtrak to deliberately "dog" Iowa Pacific. Dessatisfaction and inconvenience hurst passenger train travel in general, and the average passenger will most likely lump Amtrak in the dissatisfaction and not focus specifically on IO.
Too many people seem to view Ed Ellis as the second coming of W. Graham Claytor. Except for his twice-weekly sleeping-car operation attached to the rear of the "City of New Orleans", none of his passenger operations in the past have been scheduled services. His first attempt at a scheduled service looks like it is being operated on a shoestring budget, not unlike an interurban where the operation runs well until something untoward happens.
In fairness to Ellis, the state of Indiana is also pursuing its own agenda in this matter, part of which seems to be union-busting.
CSSHEGEWISCH Too many people seem to view Ed Ellis as the second coming of W. Graham Claytor. Except for his twice-weekly sleeping-car operation attached to the rear of the "City of New Orleans", none of his passenger operations in the past have been scheduled services. His first attempt at a scheduled service looks like it is being operated on a shoestring budget, not unlike an interurban where the operation runs well until something untoward happens. In fairness to Ellis, the state of Indiana is also pursuing its own agenda in this matter, part of which seems to be union-busting.
It's amusing that some seem to think the inspections are some sort of retaliation by unions in a so-called 'right-to-work' state like Indiana.
IP's problem may be trying to run old equipment on an every-other-day basis when their prior experience has been a few times per week with more time between runs. I wonder if the refurbishing was more cosmetic than a true rebuild?
Right on schimm, their been many post on here advocating the use of post war equipment in daily use. While its possible, it is not inexpensive. Their are business and operational reason why companies like via have spent huge amount of money on what's left Of their Budd fleets to renew them.
Has IP done the same? From the operating results, I'd say no.
daveklepper I think it is or would be very unwise for Amtrak to deliberately "dog" Iowa Pacific. Dessatisfaction and inconvenience hurst passenger train travel in general, and the average passenger will most likely lump Amtrak in the dissatisfaction and not focus specifically on IO.
FRA and State DOT inspectors 'dog' the Class 1's too. I doubt that the inspections performed on IP are any different than what is done with any other railroad.
Considering all the mechanical and statutory rules and regulations that railroads operate under, there will be failures to comply discovered by nearly every inspectors visit. A inspector that doesn't find violations will not continue to be a inspector for long. Violations of regulations by railroads (all of them) is just like the call of 'Holding' in US Football - it can be called on every play.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
So not having equipment on stand by can lead to service disruption we have seen in the past.
ROBERT WILLISON Its hard to judge how Amtrak is doing its inspections but its clear that Iowa pacific has two issues. First the lack of back up equipment. Regardless of the inspection out comes, IP appears to have no back up locomotive's or cars. Even IP people can't expect 100 % equipment utilization.
Its hard to judge how Amtrak is doing its inspections but its clear that Iowa pacific has two issues. First the lack of back up equipment. Regardless of the inspection out comes, IP appears to have no back up locomotive's or cars. Even IP people can't expect 100 % equipment utilization.
There are 3 locomotives in rotation for the Hoosier State. The train only uses two.
An "expensive model collector"
Maybe I am overly naive but I have never known anyone that was Union to screw around with Safety, they always treat it like a black and white issue. Work rules maybe but not Safety especially when lives are involved. So I too doubt the union angle. This is the same company that had it's cars removed from the City of New Orleans due to wheel fractures. Now I am not a CEO with railroad experience but as a past CEO in charge of employees I would do everything in my power to make sure equipment they were riding on was defect free from a safety perspective. It might be that IP doesn't have the inspection equipment but other shops could have been contracted to look at the trucks and wheelsets before the cars carried revenue passengers. I still suspect this guy is taking fairly high risk shortcuts to cut costs. I personally would have had all the wheetsets replaced and the wheelset frames xrayed for cracks.......if it was my operation.
So far the track record does reflect badly on the management at Iowa Pacific.
So far the three have not met their needs. One was pulled from service creating the need to substitute buses.
When a railroad (that is IP) asks for a FRA inspection something is up.
Having read the operating agreement, the only check NRPC has is the Initial Terminal inspection, which is where these inspections are occuring. It was an axle btw on the Pullman equipment, not a wheel. NRPC breaks those too.
At the rate things are going (or not) IP's operating contract may be voided for non-compliance.
I believe only INDOT can void the contract. IP is who requested the FRA inspection to verify fact.
All these actions get to why PRIIA's Section 209 and 217 were incomplete sections of legislation. What really was wrong with the old 403b?
Of course I was referring to INDOT.
V.PayneWhen a railroad (that is IP) asks for a FRA inspection something is up.
Yep.
There was a time when some Conrail car inpsectors would find a reason to shop the LSL's diner at Syracuse almost every night because they had their nose out of joint about something or other. Went on for a few months before whatever the issue was was resolved.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
And it's over:
https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=am%2FAM_Alert_C%2FAlerts_Popup&cid=1251647581793
Rumors are that Iowa Pacific is about to announce bankruptcy in the coming days after becoming overstretched. Indiana apparently will ask for bids at a later date on a recontracting.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/hoosier-state-reverting-to-amtrak-equipment-services.html?channel=41
NorthWestRumors are that Iowa Pacific is about to announce bankruptcy in the coming days after becoming overstretched.
Would not surprise me. Those old cars are not cheap to keep in service and typically private car owners are multi-millionaires via savings or income and still the costs of private railway cars stings them in the wallet.
Also with the Iowa Pacific operation, the youtube videos of malfunctioning toilets and inoperative restrooms, old locos, tells me it was a shoe string operation. Probably operating with significant bank loans.
Iowa Pacific is much larger than the Hoosier State, with at least several shortline railroads and their former CONO private car service. Based on their experience running that, I would think that they would have enough knowledge to cost out their Indiana bid. I'm not sure that the Hoosier State was the problem.
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