Huh? Is this a non sequitur or what?
Last I heard, the President of China isn't Obama. Or is there more to the story?
It is not clear enough at all.
By what authority is the President of the United States signing this particular trade agreement with China?
Is there an appropriation to purchase trains for this line that grants executive authority to sign a no-bid contract?
Are these trains to be purchased by private investors, with the U S President authorizing a reciprocal transfer of technology according to statute to make this happen?
Why are these trains best to come from China instead of from Japan (Nippon Sharyo), France (Alstom), Canada (Bombardier), Germany (Siemens), or Spain (Patentes Talgo)?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
I'm a little surprised the Chinese would participate in such a ceremony. Is it possible they don't understand the difficulties in the acquisition of non-federal land that would be required as well as the extensive permitting process? Perhaps they are confusing their rather relaxed attitude toward of the limits of power with our circumstances.
It is sometimes said that they take a 1000 year view. They are going to need it.
ndbprrApparently part of the Chinese president's visit will be to sign a high-speed rail provision between LA and Las Vegas with China providing the technology and trains. No Mention was made in the article I read about how to finance this line.
Exactly! The XpressWest press release machine, basically, has barfed out some links to other agencies that clarify nothing. Other news articles quote the Chinese participants as estimating the project cost at around $12 billion USD.
I really, really hope that taxpayers don't get roped into this scam. Ending the route at Victorville is pointless - if they really want ridership, do the EIR for continuing over/through Cajon Pass to San Bernardino and some Metrolink saving connections.
A previous topic pointed out a 'green' approach - expand gambling in California, reduce travel to Nevada and then LV/Reno will dry up and blow away. Not likely, our gov't can't even manage the state lottery properly.
Cue the classic music .....
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
At the risk of being excoriated here:
My Rule of Thumb when reading headlines like this, or like the "imminent shutdown of all US railroads," is to ask myself, "Did I read this in The New York Times, or some other place?" Because if it's not in the NY Times it's probably a blogger's speculation.
Let's see where this "project" is when the President of China returns home.
ndbprr:
I merely pointed out that there was a significant disconnect between the title and the text. It looks like there hasn't been much subsequent clarification. I'll wait for better info from a better source.
Tom
My assumption is that the Chinese would finance the project. They have helped finance mega infrastructure projects all over the world. If Xpress is a common carrier, they can use eminant domain to obtain ROW.
If it's a Chinese financed project, they will likely bring in thier own workers and locals are not hired, similar to what they do in Africa and parts of British Columbia these days.
Just how well is that high-speed rail thing working out for the Chinese? I remember reading several years back about wrecks, fatalities, and general unreliability. Then zilch, zip, nada.
Remember this is a dictatorship we're dealing with here. Not Stalin's Russia or Hitler's Germany but a dictatorship just the same. The know how to put blackouts on any bad news they don't want to leak out.
An example: Heard any follow-up stories on that horrific factory explosion they had several weeks ago? They whys and the wherefores? Me neither.
Mind you. I'm not saying I don't trust the Chinese. I do, but only to a certain point.
Excerpt from Bloomberg, Sept. 17
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-17/china-u-s-reach-agreement-on-high-speed-rail-before-xi-visit
A China Railway Group-led consortium and XpressWest Enterprises LLC will form a joint venture to build a high-speed railway linking Las Vegas and Los Angeles, the first Chinese-made bullet-train project in the U.S.
Federal railroad records indicate that XpressWest has already secured approvals and permits from a number of federal agencies for the 185-mile route. Additional permits, approvals and environmental analysis would be needed for the 230-mile proposal…
Lisa Marie Alley, a spokeswoman for the California High-Speed Rail Authority, said the agency has had ongoing discussions with XpressWest to explore combining both systems and to ensure that XpressWest trains are designed to operate on the authority’s track. Alley added that the high-speed rail authority has not yet allowed XpressWest to use its right-of-way.
Paul Milenkovic ... Why are these trains best to come from China instead of from Japan (Nippon Sharyo), France (Alstom), Canada (Bombardier), Germany (Siemens), or Spain (Patentes Talgo)?
...
An especially interesting question, given that the Chinese trains are either Bombardier or Siemens designs.
Dragoman Paul Milenkovic ... Why are these trains best to come from China instead of from Japan (Nippon Sharyo), France (Alstom), Canada (Bombardier), Germany (Siemens), or Spain (Patentes Talgo)? An especially interesting question, given that the Chinese trains are either Bombardier or Siemens designs.
free market economics? probably cheaper.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Dragoman Paul Milenkovic ... Why are these trains best to come from China instead of from Japan (Nippon Sharyo), France (Alstom), Canada (Bombardier), Germany (Siemens), or Spain (Patentes Talgo)? An especially interesting question, given that the Chinese trains are either Bombardier or Siemens designs. free market economics? probably cheaper.
Maybe, but sometimes you get the quality you pay for. Are they cutting some corners to get the same design produced cheaper?
Or is it just cheaper labor? And if so, do we want to support the way they reat there labor (and populace in general)? Sorry, enough political overtone.
This Clark County resident will only be convinced that Xpress West or anybody will actually build a high speed link to Southern California when I see the first revenue train roll into Las Vegas.
These people, and their predecessors, have been, "About to break ground," as long as I've been living here (11+ years.) If anyone has moved a spadeful of dirt, I missed the picture. I heard (but can't prove) that one bunch actually acquired some rolling stock - and then transformed itself into a proposed rail tour around southern California. (That bunch was planning to run all the way through Las Vegas to a station closer to the Las Vegas Speedway than to the Strip!)
Los Angeles - Las Vegas any speed rail has been like a desert mirage. People see it, but no one can actually touch it. If the casino and resort owners believed this could work they would be lined up, checkbooks in hand. If they are, it's the best kept secret in Las Vegas.
Chuck (NORTH Las Vegas resident)
I would suggest that the Chinese can build high speed trains and overcome some difficult engineering problems. Poltical issues, maybe not. The example I am thinking about is the route to Tibet where the trains are pressurized and oxygen is added to the cars because the train is operating at a high elevation. I think GE was involved with the locomotive design. There was show about the line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNYLgmLN00s.
Now they have a design team looking for work.
Video of the line is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Gqolxmmu8.
Some of the design milestones are listed here:
http://www.tibettravel.org/qinghai-tibet-railway/construction.html
As to the financing, when China is motivated for control of their border, and the government wants it, it gets done. Just like when Kennedy said we would go to the moon and the US was in a race with Russia. How the LA Las Vegas will be financed and ROW aquired is not in my pay grade.
Another video on Chineese Rail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w04Nv3PY1I
This is a propaganda film but it is impressive. Like what the PRR built back in the 30's when they electrified the NEC.
After reading Electroliner 1935's comments on the Chinese coming to build this HSR, it reminds me of the saying that while History may not exactly repeat itself, nonetheless from time to time it rhymes.
This wouldn't be the first time, would it, that numbers of Chinese come to California and the West to build a railroad over the mountains and across the desert and do something Americans needed to have done?
I wonder if this time, like the last, it will be said to have been built with tea?
NKP guy After reading Electroliner 1935's comments on the Chinese coming to build this HSR, it reminds me of the saying that while History may not exactly repeat itself, nonetheless from time to time it rhymes. This wouldn't be the first time, would it, that numbers of Chinese come to California and the West to build a railroad over the mountains and across the desert and do something Americans needed to have done? I wonder if this time, like the last, it will be said to have been built with tea?
I sure would like to see somebody put some sort of LA - Vegas train together!
In the 1860s, America NEEDED a transcon, and Chinese labor helped build it (but it was built with American money, most from Virgina City's Comstock Lode.)
In 2015 the need for a HSR route from LA to Las Vegas is a desert mirage. If it was needed, the Desert Wind would never have been discontinued.
As for the tea - it was made with boiled water. Thus the Chinese avoided the water-borne diseases that were endemic among Caucasian rail workers on the Transcon.
Chuck (Skeptic in Southern Nevada)
And, as a Southern California resident for 50+ years, I'll add that again, the proposal is to start in Victorville. Heck, if I'm going to have to get myself from West Los Angeles to Victorville, I might as well stay in the car all the way to Vegas, and have the use of my car there. On good days, traffic accross the desert moves at 85mph.
These assorted proposals seem to leave out that the worst part of driving to Vegas is getting through the vast Southern California coastal megalopolis TO Victorville. If I'm going to have to leave my car in Victorville (or Palmdale even) even as a railfan, I don't think I'd bother. If I have to take a bus to get to the train station in the desert, I might as well stay on the bus all the way.
I don't think gambling schemes to bring in more clients hold up for very long and I think the LA to Las Vegas HSR will probably not be a success. There are better corridors in more dire need of HSR than this one.
spsffan If I'm going to have to leave my car in Victorville (or Palmdale even) even as a railfan, I don't think I'd bother.
If I'm going to have to leave my car in Victorville (or Palmdale even) even as a railfan, I don't think I'd bother.
At least for Palmdale you might be able to connect by using Metrolink.
Wonder of wonders, the local (Las Vegas) NBC outlet actually aired a two minute bit on the, "High speed rail link to Southern California." Full of pretty cartoons and a couple of European EMU pics.
They carefully danced around WHERE in Southern California the rails would terminate...
I still say that I won't take this seriously until I see revenue passengers de-training in Las Vegas.
Chuck (Clark County resident)
tomikawaTTWonder of wonders, the local (Las Vegas) NBC outlet actually aired a two minute bit on the, "High speed rail link to Southern California." Full of pretty cartoons and a couple of European EMU pics. They carefully danced around WHERE in Southern California the rails would terminate...
I did notice that local newspapers have covered the recent antics of the suspiciously new "Nevada High-Speed Rail Authority".
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/traffic-transportation/sandoval-appoints-5-high-speed-rail-board
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/sep/29/high-speed-rail-panel-to-select-operator-by-nov-30/
How did this agency come about?
They have been talking about Dallas to Shreveport rail passenger service for over a decade with the Casinos promising that it will increase their take and even implying they might contribute. When it comes time for the hat to be passed for the demonstration run using Amtrak...........suddenly the Casinos have no money available and don't think it is such a good idea anymore.
TRANSLATION: It's a great idea and will help my bottom line as long as Joe Taxpayer funds it entirely.
MORALE OF THE STORY: Don't depend on Casinos to fund ANY major infrastructure development unless they are committed to do so in writing.
MikeF90 I did notice that local newspapers have covered the recent antics of the suspiciously new "Nevada High-Speed Rail Authority". http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/traffic-transportation/sandoval-appoints-5-high-speed-rail-board http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/sep/29/high-speed-rail-panel-to-select-operator-by-nov-30/ How did this agency come about?
Actually, Nevada Governor Sandoval included the framework for the High Speed Rail Commission in his first, "State of the State," speech after his election in 2010. Interesting that it's taken this long to actually be convened...
Chuck (Bemused Southern Nevada resident)
tomikawaTTNevada Governor Sandoval included the framework for the High Speed Rail Commission in his first, "State of the State," speech after his election in 1910.
Yes, 105 years is a long time.
Original post corrected.
When you write about events over a 2500 year span as if they were all occurring in close sequence it's easy to lose track of the centuries.
The leading edge of the Confederation Universe is now at 3626, more than a millennium after Earth was declared uninhabitable. I wonder if Nevada-SoCal had high speed rail before the casinos cashed their last chips and closed...
Chuck (sometimes SF author)
In more fantasy news, XpressWest has unilaterally ended its relationship with the Chinese consortium "China Railway International". And I quote:
XpressWest chief executive Tony Marnell said in a statement that his company's "ambitions outpace CRI's ability to move the project forward timely and efficiently".
The original article: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-rail-xpresswest-idUSKCN0YV05R
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.