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Move the Cardinal to NS at Charlottesville

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Move the Cardinal to NS at Charlottesville
Posted by zaleski on Thursday, May 28, 2015 1:36 PM

What would be required to move the Cardinal to the NS at Charlottesville.  Is there a simple, low cost and quick way to move the train from CSX to NS for the Washington- Charlottesville segment?  If not what are the construction and other costs to make the change? Would a changed routing allow faster and more dependable running time than on the BB line?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 28, 2015 2:30 PM

The Cardinal enters NS trackage at Orange, VA - approximately 10 miles from Charlottesville.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 28, 2015 4:22 PM

I invite anyone who would like the Cardinal to use NS track all the way to Charlottesville from Washington to look at a map of the area that shows land usage: it might cost a little bit to acquire the land necessary for a track to connect the NS to CSX there--if the owner were willing to sell. The current routing from Orange to Charlottesville is 30.0 miles via CSX track; the distance via NS is 27.5 miles. Granted, it seems that the train runs much more slowly than it could, when covering the 30.0 miles; the last time I went into Washington via Cincinnati, I let my attention wander from the wayside for a while and when I looked back I thought that we were surely above Orange--until I saw a C&O milepost. I do not believe that it would be economically feasible to construct the necessary connection.

When the Orange and Alexandria first reached Charlottesville, it built the track from Orange to Gordonsville (9.0 miles) and then came into Charlottesville on trackage rights. Later, after constructing its own line to Charlottesville, it sold the Orange-Gordonsville track to the C&O--which used it (and the BB now uses it, I believe) to reach Washington.

Johnny

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, May 28, 2015 8:52 PM

Memory may fail but the only way for the Cardinal to reach the CVS terminal would be a jug handle approach from the south of the CSX track and west of the NS track.  The CVS station is a "L" shaped station located in the NE quadrant of CSX and NS.  Costs ?  have no idea but until Cardinal is daily and there is another VA DOT train as well not economically viable. 

Another item --  this connection could reduce the distance the occasional Alexandria - W Va  CSX train would take.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 28, 2015 9:44 PM

blue streak 1

Memory may fail but the only way for the Cardinal to reach the CVS terminal would be a jug handle approach from the south of the CSX track and west of the NS track.  The CVS station is a "L" shaped station located in the NE quadrant of CSX and NS.  Costs ?  have no idea but until Cardinal is daily and there is another VA DOT train as well not economically viable. 

Another item --  this connection could reduce the distance the occasional Alexandria - W Va  CSX train would take.

 

Streak, I am a bit confused by your post--the Cardinal stops on the south side of the station and then proceeds straight on, just as the C&O trains did, and the Crescent and Lynchburg trains stop on the northwest side of the station, just as the Southern trains did. So far as I know, this has always been a union station.

When I was first in Charlottesville, taking the Peach Queen to Charlotte in 1959, I was hoping that a C&O train would stop there while I waited for the Southern train.

Johnny

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, May 29, 2015 6:03 AM

I suppose the Cardinal could make Charlottesville, pull ahead, then back through a Xover and into the yard on the SE side of the Xing, then proceed north on NS.  But, that would probably be more hassle than it would be worth.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, May 29, 2015 10:42 AM

oltmannd

I suppose the Cardinal could make Charlottesville, pull ahead, then back through a Xover and into the yard on the SE side of the Xing, then proceed north on NS.  But, that would probably be more hassle than it would be worth.

 

Yes, a connecting track exists from the south to the east, which would make such a maneuver possible. But, as Don says, the necessary move could be time consuming. The Buckingham Branch might be happy with it--but would the NS? Who knows--if such a change were made, would the three switches at Gordonsville and the track from Gordonsville to Orange be taken out?

Johnny

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Posted by zaleski on Friday, May 29, 2015 7:48 PM

I have changed trains from the former C&O to Southern in the past.  The C&O would actually stop at union station for a passenger. This was after a regular station stop at the few blocks a way at the C&O.  That strange bit of history is neither here nor there. 

My interest is improvement to the Cardinal which has been just hanging there forever.  By my calculation, moving to NS on the Washington to Charlottesville segment would cut the running time by 25 to 30 minutes if the crossover is efficient and fast.  It can not be backing into yards or other time consuming operations.  I do not know the lay of the land over there, but I gather there is no easy fix. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, May 29, 2015 8:06 PM

From what I can tell by the Bing map of the area, the move from CSX to NS requires two backup moves and to forward moves, if the train stops on the north track at the station; if it stops on the south track, it will be necessary for the passengers to cross one track to reach the train --and a platform should be constructed between the two tracks.

After stopping on the north track and discharging and receiving pasengers, the train backs to clear the switch to the south track, runs forward to clear the switch to the connecting track, backs onto the NS track--and then proceeds to Washington. How long would this maneuver take? Of course, the train could be moved to the NS track before being worked--and then the passengers have much more distance to cover between the train and the station than they do if the train is worked on the south side of the station. There used to be a shelter by the NS track, but it is long gone.

Johnny

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, May 29, 2015 10:24 PM

Deggesty
 

Streak, I am a bit confused by your post--

 

OK will try to clarify. 

Coming from W  Va.  

West of NS the Cardinal would divert to the right off the BBBr RR ( CSX )  to the south.

Once far enough away from the CSX track.

Then would turn left to join the west track of NS ( the jug  handle ) and then cross over to the east track by an interlocking then proceed northward crossing the CSX diamond to stop at the CVS station.

South bound on NS stop at station and reverse the above route.

 

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, May 29, 2015 10:46 PM

If you look at GoogleMaps view of the "Union Station" it would not require a lot of additional real estate to add a connection on the NE corner of the diamonds since the BBBrRR is at an obtuse angle to the NS RoW. But I suspect that the cost for six trains a week is not worth the cost. How much traffic does the Charlottesville-Orange line carry? If that line could be abandoned, the maintenance savings would pay for the connection. And as did a previous poster, I connected from Southern RR's Piedmont to Amtrak's Jame Whitcomb Riley which stopped at both stations. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 31, 2015 4:36 AM

1.   I doubt your time-saving figures.

2.   Construction of the new quadrent intechange track will require not only some additonal real-estate, but also some earth moving.  Less expensive simiply to upgrade the Charlottesville-Gordensville-Orange Buckiingham trackage for faster operation.

3.   Abandoning track for savings?  Only Gordensville-Orange would be unused; regularl empty C&O as well as Buckingham freights use the Charlottesville-Gordensvile track to get to Richmond and Newport News. And Bucking does occasdionally run to Orange and may not want to abandon that track anyway.

4.   It has admittadly been a long time since I used the Cardinal, but I did ride it and the previous C&O servoce probably at least 25 times. My impression is that this service is not particularly time sensitive.  (Probvably more like 40 times between Charlotteseville and Washington.)

%.   Using the existing interchange track with backup move would take more time than saved.

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