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The Cardinal: drastic change needed

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The Cardinal: drastic change needed
Posted by zaleski on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 9:01 AM

The Cardinal needs a major revision.  What needs to be done is have the train operate on a   eastbound schedule leaving Chicago 5 hours later.  This would allow an early morning arrival/departure at Cincinnati where dome observation car would join the sleeper/coach consist from Chicago. The Cincinnati departure would allow thruway connections from Lexington KY at Maysville and Columbus OH at South Portsmouth. The train would end in Washington with connections to New York and with the Richmond thruway coach with connections to Florida.  The westbound train would leave several hours earlier allowing a 11:30 PM arrival in Cincinnati and 10:00 in Lexington and Columbus. 

There are many advantages to these changes: good schedule times from Chicago, Cincinnati; addition of service to two unserved major cities; excellent viewing of outstanding scenery.

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 11:14 AM

Sounds good to me!  The train is just silly as Indy - Chicago corridor train. Might as well focus on the eastern part of the trip.

 Pull the westbound schedule up a couple hours, too, say 8:00 AM out of DC.  truncate the train in Washington DC.  In fact, truncate the train in Cincy. Save a trainset.  Make it a daily day train.  Do the Cincy to Chicago with a bus - or Cincy to Indy and connect to daily Hoosier state.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 5:06 PM

How is leaving Chicago at 2245 a good service time?

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 6:58 PM

n012944

How is leaving Chicago at 2245 a good service time?

For all those Red's fans that want to catch a daylight Cub's game, get a good dinner afterwards and then catch a overnight 'Pullman' back home to the river city and arrive fresh for business in the morning.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, April 15, 2015 10:48 PM

Save money, Put them on a Megabus (four crashes on I 65 so far) and be dune with them.

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Posted by zaleski on Thursday, April 16, 2015 12:26 PM

Here are additional thoughts on the Cardinal.  First the changed schedule allows for viewing one of most scenic routes in the world. The Appalachians, Blue Ridge, Shenadoah puts the train in scenic category of the Zephyr.  Two is that the change would easily be supported by Jim Justice owner of the Greenbrier.  The new schedule would allow sleepers from Chicago and New York to reach the resort. Three is that the new Boy Scout national camp near Beckley could bring many passengers just as Camp Philmont brings many passengers on the Southwest Chief.  Four is the new schedule brings better transportation to remote WV. 

 One train on a route brings disadvantages to some areas:  Indianapolis would have the Hoosier four days a week.  It would gain somewhat from the new schedule: Chicago departure/arrivals at 10:45 PM and  8:05 AM.  Amtrak might not be able to use the train to move equipment to/from Beech Grove.

More than anything the new schedule would bring significant change to a train which has been just hanging there for years with many ideas for change (daily operation, additional sleeper, dome car, better stations) never reached. The plan outlined here could end up with all the others unless there is a specific action plan and individuals to carry it out. 

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, April 16, 2015 3:24 PM

We are all assuming that the train exists to serve the market along it's route.  

That's a bad assumption. Amtrak has shown time and again that the LD trains exist today solely because they existed yesterday.  Their goal is to make what happened today, happen again tomorrow.   That's it. 

... and to give them a place to run their new baggage cars!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by cbq9911a on Thursday, April 16, 2015 4:30 PM

First, separate the Cardinal and Hoosier State.  Then, run the Cardinal daily, leaving Chicago at 9:45 PM.  That gives you a Cincinnati arrival at 7:27 AM and a Washington, DC arrival at 10:19 PM.

This would make the Cardinal the "clean up" train for late arrivals in Chicago, allowing the Lake Shore Limited to depart at a more civilized hour.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, April 18, 2015 1:09 PM

oltmannd

Sounds good to me!  The train is just silly as Indy - Chicago corridor train. Might as well focus on the eastern part of the trip.

 Pull the westbound schedule up a couple hours, too, say 8:00 AM out of DC.  truncate the train in Washington DC.  In fact, truncate the train in Cincy. Save a trainset.  Make it a daily day train.  Do the Cincy to Chicago with a bus - or Cincy to Indy and connect to daily Hoosier state.

 

DC-Cincy would not work because it's less than 750 miles, and would fall to the states to support.  I would like to see a CHI-Cincy corridor train, but since most of the route is in Indiana, and that state is barely supporting the 4 day per week Hoosier, I don't see it happening.

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, April 18, 2015 9:20 PM

To have a real passenger rail corridor between CHI-CIN, most of the trackage would need rebuilding to 79 or better.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by Jim200 on Tuesday, April 21, 2015 5:35 PM

The PRIIA report said to make the Cardinal daily would result in vastly increased ridership. There is multi millions of dollars available for station construction or renovation, but apparently very little for route  improvement.or expansion. I see the Cardinal as part of a conjunction with a new Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville, Nashville, Atlanta, Jacksonville and Orlando route. Thus we also have Chicago/Indianapolis to Florida, and New York/Philadelphia/Washington to Louisville/Nashville to add to the number of passengers. PRIIA didn't consider these passengers. We can't look to the states for stable passenger mobility; we have to make Amtrak stronger through improved congressional funding.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, April 22, 2015 8:35 AM

Jim200

The PRIIA report said to make the Cardinal daily would result in vastly increased ridership. There is multi millions of dollars available for station construction or renovation, but apparently very little for route  improvement.or expansion. I see the Cardinal as part of a conjunction with a new Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville, Nashville, Atlanta, Jacksonville and Orlando route. Thus we also have Chicago/Indianapolis to Florida, and New York/Philadelphia/Washington to Louisville/Nashville to add to the number of passengers. PRIIA didn't consider these passengers. We can't look to the states for stable passenger mobility; we have to make Amtrak stronger through improved congressional funding.

 

In order to get money from Congress for such a thing, Amtrak would have to:

a) show that they care, even a little

b) demonstrate that care, with some action somewhere, anywhere on any of their LD routes.

Lots of PRIIA stuff under their control or influence got zero action and/or was botched.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by ROBERT TINDALL on Wednesday, April 22, 2015 8:45 AM

Would be nice to have a daylight train from Charlottesville to KY but scenery is not Amtraks priority,

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Posted by MikeInPlano on Wednesday, April 22, 2015 10:34 PM

BaltACD
 
n012944

How is leaving Chicago at 2245 a good service time?

 

For all those Red's fans that want to catch a daylight Cub's game, get a good dinner afterwards and then catch a overnight 'Pullman' back home to the river city and arrive fresh for business in the morning.

 

And there must be what, 3 or 4 of those?

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Posted by conductorchris on Sunday, May 10, 2015 5:37 PM

Cutting New York from the train has big negative ridership consequences.  Better to favor New York City than much smaller Cincinnati.

The Cardinal has had other schedules in the past and ridership improved when the train flipped to the current schedule.

No question daily operation would big the best thing one could do.  Increasing the speed - east of Cinncinnati as well as west - would also help.

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