blue streak 1 Part of Gateway project Portal bridge Someone clued this in. The Amtrak FY 2016 funds request called for a total of $275M for the North Portal bridge. This is just the request dated FEB 2015. Who knows what the final appropriation will be . There are many interesting items in the request. http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/133/704/FY15-Budget-Business-Plan-FY16-Budget-Justification-FY-15-19-Five-Year-Financial-Plan.pdf
Part of Gateway project Portal bridge
Someone clued this in. The Amtrak FY 2016 funds request called for a total of $275M for the North Portal bridge. This is just the request dated FEB 2015. Who knows what the final appropriation will be . There are many interesting items in the request.
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/133/704/FY15-Budget-Business-Plan-FY16-Budget-Justification-FY-15-19-Five-Year-Financial-Plan.pdf
Tiger grant to NJ to begin preliminary construction items for the North Portal brige construction . An additional $16M.
Quote from article. note other tiger grants.
$16 million to New Jersey to replace the century-old Portal Bridge, a major chokepoint along the Northeast Corridor. The grant will be used to support early construction activities of the project including the realignment of a 138kV transmission monopole, constructing a temporary fiber optic cable pole line, building the northwest finger pier construction access structure, construction the a service access road and building a 560-foot retaining wall.
http://www.rtands.com/index.php/track-structure/ballast-ties-rail/rail-projects-to-receive-more-than-155-million-in-tiger-grants-so-far.html
What happens in the unlikely event 1 bore of the North river tunnel closes or the Portal bridge fails before the replacements are completed ? Depending how far along construction, engineering, and EIS are complete what will congress do ? Would congress have no choice but to immediately appropriate the money and void any normal permitting processes ?
The only reson this question is asked is because of congress' action to extend PTC. This poster has no idea. What pressure would come to Washington from both the common comuter and business who depend on those workers.
blue streak 1What happens in the unlikely event 1 bore of the North river tunnel closes or the Portal bridge fails before the replacements are completed ?
Then the finger pointing begins and the politicians look for cover. The commuters and other users suffer, the contractors get rich (because its full speed ahead, do whatever is necessary) and the costs escalate. It won't be fun but I hope it doesn't happen.
In the event of tunnel or bridge failure the solution will depend on the political make up of the House, Senate and Executive. The east coast commuters and passengers are largely from a blue state region. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that a party that seems continally willing to endanger if not sacrifice the country's full faith and credit in order to make a minority political point, a party that is largely drawn from red states not in the main region affected, would have no trouble not appropriating any money or enough money, etc. just because a bunch of Democrats can't get in or out of Penn Station.
Do you recall the front page headline when NYC faced bankruptcy? "Ford to City: Drop Dead". I fear that tunnel/bridge failure in the NYC area will bring out the worst in politicians of a certain type. To build new infrastucture, especially on this scale, will require compromise in Washington, and compromise is held in low esteem these days by the likes of the tea party and its fellow travelers.
I THINK EVEN MOST TEA-PARTY TYPES REALIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE NEC TO THE NATION. MICA AND RUBIO APPEAR TO DO SO.
This poster just stumbled across a NJT board meeting minutes. It has been noted NJT will be the lead agency for the enviromental impact statement (EIS). One item that is distressing is that it is expected to take 36 months from time contractor is selected till EIS is complete. Wonder if NJT will have to put the EIS out for competetive bids ? Anyone know if that will be required and if so how much time that would take ? IMHO these may be a very bad unnecessary delays. Since NJT already did a EIS for ARC why can not that one be used with a few modifications ?
A lot will depend on how much engineering work can be done in parallel to the EIS. All in all these possible delays just means getting closer to a possible failure of one of the North river tunnel bores.
Hopefully the 1st Portal bridge work will be complete if it gets started next year ( if funds allocated )
http://www.njtransit.com/AdminTemp/board_agenda_10-14-2015_final.pdf
daveklepper I THINK EVEN MOST TEA-PARTY TYPES REALIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE NEC TO THE NATION. MICA AND RUBIO APPEAR TO DO SO.
Tea Party types only realize their perception of their own importance. The country be damned.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD daveklepper I THINK EVEN MOST TEA-PARTY TYPES REALIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE NEC TO THE NATION. MICA AND RUBIO APPEAR TO DO SO. Tea Party types only realize their perception of their own importance. The country be damned.
Certainly true. Tea Party types and their "dupes" and "fellow travelers" and other Koch Bros. subsidized pols (the Kochs are heirs to the John Birch Society message) in the GOP have taken Teflon Reagan's 1st inaugural sound byte from years ago* to an extreme and made it become reality.
* "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Thank goodness this is a non-political forum. Otherwise, I would worry we have been taken over by Democrats.
Rave on, brothers. You had both houses of Congress AND the presidency and screwed it up, big-time. Who has been more "obstructionist," the Republicans or Harry Reid and Obama? Name the last president who vetoed a defense bill.
Obama has the economy and foreign affairs in the worst knot since Jimmy Carter. Carter at least had the decency to be abashed, but not Obama, who continues to preen and try to polish his "legacy" ... which he had better hope history forgets.
dakotafred Thank goodness this is a non-political forum. Otherwise, I would worry we have been taken over by Democrats.
There were several coments on the CA High Speed rail thread about politics being "verboten", but then that was in response to criticisms of EGB Jr.
Party affiliation is meaningless - What we have is a cast of 'professional' politicians whose only thought is getting re-elected so they can further pander on the public dole, the country be damned. This applies equally to Democrats, Republicans, Tea Party and anyone else.
How much money gets spent on the election campaigns vs. how much does the office being campaigned for pay. Campaigns are paying 100 times or more what the office pays.
Show me a politician that leaves office, poorer or equal, to the wealth he possessed when he entered office and you may find a honest politician. I haven't heard of anyone leaving office under those condiditions (except maybe those that have had to spend on legal defenses for the corruption they were being prosecuted for).
I very much believe in free speech, so I'm not asking for you to stop the political posts, but could you please include something that applies to New York railroad tunnels, which I think is what this topic should discuss?
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
erikem dakotafred Thank goodness this is a non-political forum. Otherwise, I would worry we have been taken over by Democrats. There were several coments on the CA High Speed rail thread about politics being "verboten", but then that was in response to criticisms of EGB Jr.
There was only one, rather lame attempt at humor on an almost totally political thread on CA HSR, mine: "Norm: Is it necessary to drag Gov. Brown into the discussion? Politics are AFAIK, strengst verboten!"
Politics were removed from the forbidden list some time ago, correct? Either way, moderators don't seem to care.
schlimmPolitics were removed from the forbidden list some time ago, correct? Either way, moderators don't seem to care.
Too bad. This is a railroad forum and while politics do have much to do with the rules, subsidies and many aspects of the railroads, Red and Blue yelling (yes, I'll call it yelling since too many want to say its my way or the highway and are not interested in compromise) gets terribly old and as many note, repetitious. I often have an urge to say "Give it a rest" but it would not do any good.
Hopefully, someday we will learn whether heavily loaded tank cars do or do not exert unique forces on the track and put this mater to rest. In the mean time, its been a while since our last oil train accident for which I am thankful. Lets hope it continues. Possibly, the Railroads have found and repaired most of the bad spots in their track (doubtful) and we will get into next year in a happier condition.
Folks, please show some moderation. Some Tea Party types may be interested only in getting elected, but there are others who have serious and well-thought-out objections to increasing portions of the economy being taken from the market place and placed in the hands of the Government. Just as there are liberals who may be interested only in getting reelectred and others who have serious and well-thought-out concerns for the crumbling infrastructure, and conditions of the poor ahd sick and refugees. Let us hope there are enough of good will to come up with solutions and not just kicking problems down the road or making them worse.
Maybe I should have not used the words Tea Party, but maintained there are enough Republicans who understand the importance of the NECto the nation as a whole
daveklepper Maybe I should have not used the words Tea Party, but maintained there are enough Republicans who understand the importance of the NECto the nation as a whole
Dave,
Keep in mind that "Tea Party" and Republicans are not synonymous, while there is a fair amount of overlap, there are a large number of "Tea Party" types who are not Republicans and a lot of Republicans who don't identify with the "Tea Party".
Support or opposition to funding for rail transit projects in my neck of the woods (San Diego County) is not a simple R vs D thing. Bob Filner (D) was strongly in favor of Bus Rapid Transit over rail, while Pete Wilson (R) was very suppotive of Jim Mills (D) original proposal for the San Diego Trolley (first segment was done without any Federal funding). Keep in mind that many counties in California have voter approved sales tax surcharges for transit funding - which started with the 0.5 cent tax in the BART counties back in the 1960's.
As for the NEC, and as a west coaster, I would like to see some serious skin in the game from the locals as a prerequisite for federal funding. If loss of one or both of the PRR's Manhattan tunnels will lead to massive traffic jams on the likes of the Holland Tunnel and/or George Washington Bridge, then part of the funding could come from bridge or tunnel tolls under the guise of helping to ensure that traffic on the bridge or tunnel will keep flowing (in the sense of not being 24hr gridlock). NYC should kick in some dough as well as the city collects income tax from people commuting on the PRR tunnels and it would behoove the city to look out afer its revenue sources. New York State doesn't seem to be too gung ho on the project, prefering to spend money on airport terminals and New Jersey is an open question.
The EIS for the project is another -um- interesting issue. My curmudgeonly take on the issue is that doing nothing is likely to have a larger environmental impact than properly fixing/replacing the tunnels and that the various agencies requiring the EIS really should be filing EIS's on why the project is being held up due to the EIS requirement.
erikem As for the NEC, and as a west coaster, I would like to see some serious skin in the game from the locals as a prerequisite for federal funding.
As for the NEC, and as a west coaster, I would like to see some serious skin in the game from the locals as a prerequisite for federal funding.
Exactly. Both New York and New Jersey need to make significant contributions. In addition, to attempt to avoid another Big Ditch fiasco, their proportionate contributions should increase should cost overruns be encountered.
I'd also favor the appointment of a special federal prosecutor from the beginning of the project to investigate and try instances of graft and corruption. If I could devise a bounty for each successful prosecution of politicans, contractors and union officials, I'd do that.
NY Times reports a breakdown of all the Gateway projects.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/nyregion/amtrak-says-regions-rail-projects-could-cost-up-to-dollar23-9-billion.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fnyregion&action=click&contentCollection=nyregion®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=1
Total $23.9B
New tunnels and repair of present $ 7.7B
Expand NYP $5.9B
This poster is not famaliar if the Hunter flyover project is considered part of Gateway but IMHO it is important. Have ridden the Raritan valley inbound to Newark Penn station and often thought that the CP switches needed to get to the east bound to NYP platforms could possibly delay many trains. Anyone know where the project is now ?
Is there any design proposaal yet ?
http://www.nec-commission.com/cin_projects/hunter-flyover/
A breakdown of the Gateway projects is in this link. Projects is a plural term. Note costs of each part.
http://blog.tstc.org/2016/02/01/gateway-project-timeline-released-but-cross-hudson-capacity-relief-still-a-long-way-off/
Well another emergency shut down of a tube. We must just hope that these shut downs do not occurr too often until the new Gateway tunnels are in service.
http://www.fox5ny.com/news/89624009-story
Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee subcommittee hearing: “Passenger Rail: Opportunities and Challenges for the National Network,” Feb. 23.
Excerpt from Port Authority press release, Mar. 23
http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/press-item.cfm?headLine_id=2388
The Gateway Program’s Hudson Tunnel Project to construct a new rail tunnel under the Hudson River will receive $70 million in funding for critical preliminary engineering work, with $35 million in federal funding coming from Amtrak and $35 million from the Port Authority, subject to the consideration and approval of each party’s Boards, in order to expedite and accelerate environmental review and permitting for the Hudson Tunnel Project.
Federal fudnding for the tunnel bores but article a little confusing. Wonder how the Christie hold up of funds for the EIS will affect the start or will be affected.
http://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2016/07/federal-funding-for-gateway-gains-steam-103701#ixzz4EDRcojh7
US has put Gateway on a fast track
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/amtrak/news/Gateway-program-poised-to-move-ahead-at-record-speed-Amtrak-says--49782
About dashboard expedited
https://www.permits.performance.gov/about
Excerpt from Amtrak press release, Oct. 14
http://media.amtrak.com/2016/10/secretary-foxx-sens-schumer-gillibrand-menendez-booker-chairman-coscia-announce-major-developments-for-urgently-needed-gateway-program/
The federal leaders also announced that on September 2nd the Gateway partners submitted a Portal North Bridge Core Capacity rating package to the FTA for evaluation. If the project scores well, it will be included in the Department of Transportation’s recommendation for the President’s FY18 Budget. Inclusion of Portal North Bridge in the Budget, expected to be released next Spring, would represent a huge step toward securing significant federal grant funding. Simultaneously, the Gateway partners are advancing engineering and environmental work on the Hudson Tunnel Project with the goal of having that project included in the President’s Budget in the near future.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/gateway-paradise-by-the-permitting-dashboard-lights.html
Port authority has just announced $300M for the north Portal bridge. That should get construction started however still ~ $700M + needed for bridge. That at least starts one iem of the Gateway project. But the money for the Gateway tunnel bores still to be had.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-20/port-authority-approves-money-to-replace-notorious-portal-bridge
One concern with the Bloomberg article. It is generally accepted that the present Portal swing bridge will not be replaced until the Portal south bridge is built. Until Portal south is operational if there are 4 bores under the Hudson and only the 2 tracks over Portal north that causes new congestion.
By the time there are four tunnels permanently available for service, all bridge cnstruction will be complete. Remember that when the two new tunnels are in service, the existing ones will be out of service for major repair work.
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