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[quote user="DwightBranch"] To equate defense, education, public water systems, etc., all of which serve the general public, with intercity passenger rail services is over the top.  It is not a public utility any more than an intercity bus company or an airline is a public utility.  It may be the solution to commercial or general transport issues in some areas of the country.  In any case its users should pay for the ride.  That, after all, is what airline passengers and bus riders do.  Not over the top at all since that is exactly what Smith says, neither public safety, national defense nor public transportation makes a profit and yet is still necessary.  As for your contention that airline passengers and bus riders pay for their rides, not by a long shot. First off,  no system of public transportation anywhere make a profit: highways don't make money, airports don't make money, waterways don't make money. Second, those who use it do not come close to paying the true cost of operating it divided by the number of tickets sold (or in the case of highways, number of cars using them). None of those modes of transport would exist in the first place without government action, and they cannot survive without taxpayer subsidies. But one thing is crystal clear.  It does not matter what the Europeans or the Asians or anyone else does with respect to anything. Americans should do what is best for their country.  And that includes solutions to problems that Americans, not Europeans, will have to live with.   Fair enough, but all of us have a say in what that will be, including those of us that believe that in the long run steel wheel on rail transportation is more efficient and safer than single car on pavement transportation or air transportation for travel within the US. It may come as a shocker to many folks, but the founders of this country had a distinct disdain for Europeans, especially George III and his minions.    Speaking as someone who taught university-level American government (not my specialty but I did it for a time) If you are trying to say that the founding fathers were stridently nativist and anti-English you are a long way off. It may come as a shock to YOU, but the United States is a country based upon a theory, and that theory, by and large, was developed by John Locke of England. [/quote] Airlines in the United States have covered their costs over the long run and provided a return to their shareholders, although many of them have gone belly up, and none of them make a lot of money.  They pay for their proportional use of the airways and airports in the United States through fuel taxes, fees, inventory taxes, income taxes, etc.   Airports in the United States have been construction for the most part by municipal authorities using tax free municipal financing. They recover the cost through fees, rents, etc. The airways have been constructed and are operated by the federal government.  For the most part the users, including the airlines, tote the note.  The airlines use approximately 1/3rd of the capacity of the airways and airports.   Intercity bus companies in the United States tote their share of the note.  They make a profit or they go out of business. the financial reports for FirstGroup, which owns Greyhound, offer insights into intercity bus financing. Highways, airways, etc. are not intended to make money. Their costs (operating and capital) are recovered through user fees.  This has been true for canals, waterways, highways, railways, and airways in the United States.  The cost of the federal highway system has been recovered through fuel taxes, fees, etc. From its inception in 1956, through 2007, the Highway Trust Fund ran a surplus, even after allocating approximately 20 per cent of its receipts to the Mass Transit Administration.  Unfortunately, since 2007 or 2009, because the Congress has refused to raise the federal fuel taxes to keep pace with the needs, the government has had to transfer monies from the general fund to the Highway Trust Fund.  In Texas, where I live, 25 per cent of the fuel taxes are diverted to public education. The intercity bus companies claim that they pay their fair share for the use of the roadways. The key challenge for advocates of passenger rail is to show how it will recover its costs. In the United States it doesn't, even though Amtrak pays not taxes whatsoever. If there was a remote possibility that it could recover its fully allocated costs, I would be all for funding it.  But it doesn't, and based on passenger rail systems throughout the world, it is not likely to be able to recover its costs. By contrast the cost of the highways, airports, etc. are recovered through user fees as per above.  That you were a college professor comes through loud and clear in your tone, i.e. "not by a long shot.", "you are a long way off". In the world of grown-ups, as opposed to college students, we don't put other people down.  My earlier reference to it may come as a shock was generic and was not directed to you. Frankly, I don't care whether you were a college professor or a locomotive engineer, although I have more respect for locomotive engineers.   And I don't care what Adam Smith said in Wealth of Nations, although I have read it twice.  The issue is now. What is the problem and what are the best solutions for the United States.
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