Hello all ;
Browsing thru the net, I've just stumbled upon this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lackawanna_Cut-Off_(NJ_Transit)
Anyone knows how things are going? Would it be expected to have 80 Mph (ok I'll go for 79 if cab signal equipment is not installed) trains hauled by ALP45s directly to NYP in a medium term period ? Or even Amtrak?
Dunno why, but it always seemed to be a far better route than the old Erie main, now Southern tier, even for freighters ...
The time for equipment and schedules are so far in the future anything about them is pure conjecture. Even the operator west of Stroudsburg is not even being thought of. Before any of that can come to mind, the track has to be built from Port Morris, NJ to Slateford Jct., PA. Track is in from the tower back to the Brooklyn-Stanhope Rd crossing designated and used for storage of the Sandy stuff.
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What what I've been reading in magazines like "Railpace" and "Railfan and Railroad" NJ Transit isn't exactly setting any speed records in bringing the Lackawanna Cutoff back to life. Probably a lot of reasons why but I suspect its the "same-old, same-old." Money, or lack of same.
Its is more complicated and probably convoluted, too. Money was approved but not released. A Sierra Club intervention (these guys have not favored rail service here but rather a monorail up the median of the I80!) has held things up near Roseville Tunnel...bored about 100 years ago as we speak, but now a precious wetland to them. Someone pulled down a bridge over the railroad about a mile or so west of Port Morris (to where the track has been laid...laid just in time for NJT to designate it a storage track to hold the results of Sandy including locomotives, cars, and MU's) and the communities are fighting who should pay for a grade crossing or rebuilding a bridge. So until the crossing and the wetlands are settled, there is nothing happening.
So it seems a little bit complicated to came back? Well the Montclair & Boonton was complicated too, but it's now working, altough the 'Cut off' might be a little more.
Anyway there are some questions that are a little bit on the unclear side, at least for me, and not connected with the track laying process (all else will just be a re-use of one of the best rights of way built in the US), wich concerns service. We all know that the Scranton side is in PA state, so that brings us to the 1st query : how will it be explored? using a model similar to the one in the Port Jervis route or other? 2nd query : 133 miles (from Hoboken) seems to be a lot for a suburban service, or even an 'outer suburban' service, as the brits are now calling some of their regional services, so it seems to be a service that can be provided by a 'national' operator, and the only available is Amtrak, but that would require an engine change in Dover, or the aquisition of 'dual mode' engines, such as NJTs ALP45s. 3rd query: with such a good alignment, and with some curve corrections around MPs 63 & 64 a far much higher speed than 80 Mph would be possible on a relative bargain, allowing the creation of a long (circa 20 miles, 4 miles longer than the existing 110 Mph section just South of Albany) section of high speed track in wich speeds could be wether 110 or 125 Mph (and the first part of the cut off could get a little treatment to allow 80), therefore allowing faster times NYP-Scranton (don't bother trying to correct curves from Slateford Jct to Scranton, or between Port Morris Jct and Newark, it would be too expensive, for several reasons, so some 100 miles of the line will always be 'slow motion' track). As for service North of Scranton, it's for me a big 'maybe later', always depend of CP's will to have passenger trains using is route
Railfans tend to put a lot of carts before the horses. First the railroad has to be built and all the hullaboo cleared up: PA owns the track from the east side of the Slateford bridge to Scranton. The first concept was for NJT to operate to the west side of the bridge but later talking led to terminate at Stroudsburg as being natural. It is thought now that NJT will operate the trains to Stroudsburg but from there to Scranton is undetermined. NJT could but so could any other qualified operator who may bid on the job, either another railroad operator or a new company.. But all this is far, far in the future, questions no longer being raised in light of the fact that the track hasn't gotten west of Port Morris yet. And up to now, the whole of the scope was Scranton to Hoboken and not NYP; but that was before the dualies were even ordered. The question I raise if the service does become three state (PA-NJ-NY) does it still come under the purview of NJT and the NE PA authority only or is there Amtrak or other red tape and restrictions? The scope of the project, the paperwork, the market surveys, etc. have all been Scranton to Hoboken, so what would going to NYP do to change all that has been done? Oh, its easy to put on a dualie and flip a track switch and send the train to NY in our minds, but how can it be done without politics and paperwork? One thing for sure, is whether Hoboken or NYP, it has to be a one seat ride.
We need powerfull railfan lawyers on our side to go up against folks like the Sierrra Clab
henry6 Its is more complicated and probably convoluted, too. Money was approved but not released. A Sierra Club intervention (these guys have not favored rail service here but rather a monorail up the median of the I80!) has held things up near Roseville Tunnel...bored about 100 years ago as we speak, but now a precious wetland to them. Someone pulled down a bridge over the railroad about a mile or so west of Port Morris (to where the track has been laid...laid just in time for NJT to designate it a storage track to hold the results of Sandy including locomotives, cars, and MU's) and the communities are fighting who should pay for a grade crossing or rebuilding a bridge. So until the crossing and the wetlands are settled, there is nothing happening.
Mario_v So it seems a little bit complicated to came back? Well the Montclair & Boonton was complicated too, but it's now working, altough the 'Cut off' might be a little more.
Yes, it is in service, but think of how long it took! The Montclair connection was first proposed well before the Erie-Lackawanna merger; I recall a _Trains_ article from 1967 or '68 on the E-L commuter service that showed the connection as being definitely planned. It took until the 1990's for the thing to actually happen, and the actual new right-of-way in Montclair was less than half a mile!New Jersey politics are only for those who *like* knowing what's in the sausage.
Peace,--Peter
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