The best interior shots of an open section sleeping car I know of are from a 1959 film called "Some Like It Hot." About a quarter of the way through the scene shifts to the Clover Colony, a 12 section Pullman sleeper originally built for the Southern Pacific, carrying Sweet Sue's All Girl Band from Chicago to Miami to play at a large hotel. Daytime pictures include a band rehearsal where Sugar Kane (Marilyn Monroe) drops a flask on the floor. Sweet Sue is furious as sugar has been caught drinking before. Josephine (Tony Curtis) picks it up saying it is his. From a railroad point of view the car interior is quite clear. There are also night time scenes with the births folded down. If you want to see an open sleeper copy and click on this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o3ZhybaZ_s
The movie itself is a comedy about 2 musicians, Joe/Josephine played by Tony Curtis and Jerry/Daphne played by Jack Lemmon, running from a Chicago gang. They disguise themselves as women and join the all girl band to get away. On the train they befriend Sugar Kane and get her out of the scrape described above. Of course, if you want to watch the whole movie it is available at the link.
If you know of any particularly good depictions of trains available on the internet please feel free to add them.
Brilliant performances by Jack Lemmon, Curtis, Monroe and Joe E. Brown in a great Billy Wilder comedy. Oddly enough, although it is supposed to be set in Florida, its actually at the famous Hotel del Coronado in San Diego bay.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Absolutely one of the best, if not the funniest moves ever made! if I ever make it out to San Diego, I am staying at the "Del." I don't care what it costs!
"This will put hair on your chest."
"No fair guessing!"
After "Godfather" and "Lawrence of Arabia," my favourite movie. Amongst others.
I'm also going to drink some "Green Flash" IPA!
Merry Christmas!
54light15if I ever make it out to San Diego, I am staying at the "Del." I don't care what it costs!
Be sure to say hello to Sugar for me.
Yes, the Del is a nice place to stay. From my first learning about it, I thought it would be an excellent hotel--and when planning our 2008 trip I worked it in. Ricki also liked to stay at the old, famous hotels, and we worked several of them into our itineraries--the Palmer House, the Brown Palace, the Peabody in Memphis, the Hotel Colorado, the Governor Hotel in Portland, the Greenbrier, the Stonewall Jackson in Staunton (I was partial to that one because my father's father served under General Jackson), the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island--and several of the former railroad hotels in Canada.
Johnny
I have been watching some of the Laurel and Hardy shorts - as can be imagined, open section sleepers play a part in some films, particularly of their early "Berth Marks" (heck, open sleepers played a part in many shows of the era, from Abbot and Costello to the Three Stooges "Hold That Lion" to the Honeymooner's "Unconventional Behavior").
Anyway, one thing that puzzled me in L&H's Berth Marks (this may fall into the "It's just a show, I should really just relax" category) is that the duo SHARE an upper sleeper berth (they had tickets and are legitimately on the train, unlike the Three Stooges in "Hold that Lion" who had no tickets, but were on the train to find a criminal and crashed in an empty berth) - most of the comedy revolves around L&H attempts to get undressed and get to sleep in the cramped berth, when it turns out their stop is only minutes away and they have to quickly get dressed again.So, could you legitimately share berths on a sleeper in real life? I mean 2 adults, not an adult and a small child? Would the Pullman Corp allow this, and if so was it somewhat common?
Oh, yes; I have the impression that many couples traveling on their honeymoon slept thus. Of course, a drwaing room was better.
The standard allocation of berths for military travel was two to a lower berth and one to an upper.
DeggestyOh, yes; I have the impression that many couples traveling on their honeymoon slept thus.
I know for a fact that some couples slept two to a birth.
Post WW II there were only three RRs with streamlined all section sleepers these were the Budd built 16 Section sleepers for the California Zephyr, the UP 14 Section ALPINE series sleepers built by AC&F and last but not least were the MT. series 14 section Touralux cars of the CMSTP&P built in the companies own shops. The CZ cars were rebuilt to 48 revenue seat Leg Rest Coaches, the UP cars were rebuilt to 44 revenue seat leg rest coaches and most of the Milwaukee cars were rebuilt to head end cars.Many of the old heavyweight 12 section 1 drawing room cars went to government storage after the Korean Conflict but all were eventually scrapped. Prior to WW II the section was the most common sleeping car accomodation on the RRs. They lasted well into the late 1950s as the government being far more frugal with taxpayer monies would only reimburse for lower berths. I believe it was about 1958 that the goverment began paying for Roomettes and Bedrooms. Those Military ranks with stars (Generals Admirals) could even travel in drawing rooms and there batman was also accommodated in roomettes, as were there aides.
Rank certainly had its privileges.
VIA sleeper cars had a few (I think 4) open sections at one end of many of their cars about 20 years ago when I last used them, and I think I heard they still have some.
Both the Chateau series and the Manor series were built with four sections. All of these now have only three sections, as the space occupied by one section has been converted to a shower/dressing room--and these shower rooms are superior to the shower/dressing rooms found in Viewliner and Superliner sleepers, and infinitely superior to the showers found in Viewliner and Superliner bedrooms. The disadvantage of having a bedroom or drawing room in a Park car (the observation cars) is that you have to go to an adjoining car to take a shower. While on the subject of VIA sleepers, I recommend that if you want a room for two on the Canadian, ask for room E, for it is actually a compartment, and is a foot or so longer than a bedroom--and costs no more.
The railroads were far more accommodating in days of old than at present. I mean't my wife in Australia while serving in the Navy and we asked Canadian Pacific if we could have the Drawing Room in the Park car for our trip to Toronto even though the Park car was a through Vancouver -Montreal car at that time. My wife arrived in Vancouver aboard the P&O Iberia from Sydney in February and after a hurry up wedding in Vancouver boarded the Canadian for Toronto. When we reached Sudbury they switched all of our things from the Park car on the Montreal section to the Park car on the Toronto section. When we arrived in Toronto all of the wifes bags were transferred across the street to the Royal York Hotel where we stayed for a few days while our new apartment was furnished and made ready for our occupancy. It was a very cold February but the train was warm as toast. The Chef fixed a special meal for us to celebrate our first week anniversary while traveling across Canada.
Al - in - Stockton
DeggestyThe standard allocation of berths for military travel was two to a lower berth and one to an upper.
John WRDeggestyOh, yes; I have the impression that many couples traveling on their honeymoon slept thus.I know for a fact that some couples slept two to a birth.
Was "birth" a typo, or was it a groaner of a pun which only works with the I, Claudius "Not Slept, Caesar" meaning of "slept"
chutton01Was "birth" a typo, or was it a groaner of a pun which only works with the I, Claudius "Not Slept, Caesar" meaning of "slept"
A typo. I was thinking "e" but my finger typed "i." I apologize for the confusion.
John WR chutton01Was "birth" a typo, or was it a groaner of a pun which only works with the I, Claudius "Not Slept, Caesar" meaning of "slept" A typo. I was thinking "e" but my finger typed "i." I apologize for the confusion.
Eh, I wasn't confused for a second, seemed a serendipitous mistake however. Besides, even it was a pun, the second rule of model railroading - never apologize for a groaner of a pun (otherwise where would that leave such classic model kit signs as "W.E. Snatchem, Undertakers" or "If it's good, its a Miracle")
I'm a victim of soi-come-stance!!
Stooges - A Pain in the Pullman
Hard to beat this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a_48JQlIaQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1
jclass I'm a victim of soi-come-stance!! Stooges - A Pain in the Pullman Hard to beat this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a_48JQlIaQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1
It is good. But the first clip looks like a bedroom rather than a berth.
John WR It is good. But the first clip looks like a bedroom rather than a berth.
For the first 2 or so minutes the Stooges are crashing in the Revue Star's drawing room, until the show's manager chases them out.
The open section sleeper portion occurs after that, with the Stooges trying with minimal success to get to sleep in their upper berth while their pet monkey runs wild, and the show manager in a lower bunk keeps hitting his head in against the bottom of the upper bunk. In the end, they get thrown off the train by the conductor after their monkey pulls the emergency cord, and end up riding some bulls...
A tall woman tossed The Stooges into their upper berth - in real life, wasn't there a movable ladder or something you could use to get into the upper berth?
I went back and found everything you describe. Actually, whenever I have ridden in an open sleeper there has always been a tall lady to help you into your berth.
In the fifties, the L&N ordered 6-6-4 cars that had a ladder that opened out for use hooked on to each upper berth. They were much handier for upper berth passengers (those who went higher and thus whose berths were lower than the lowers; if they were willing to go higher, they would go lower). Before these came into use, the upper berth passengers had to call for the porter to bring a ladder.
The first upper I slept in, in 1966, was in the UP's American Sailor, a 6-6-4 built in 1942. I really do not remember asking the porter for a ladder, but I do not doubt that I had to. Later, I slept in uppers in one SAL 4-4-5-1, which also had the folding ladders, and several of the L&N's 6-6-4 cars. The uppers in the rooms also had ladders that stayed in the rooms.
Twice, my wife and I slept in a lower on the Canadian. Since the upper was not used, the attendant did not have to hook the ladder to the upper.
Deggesty (those who went higher and thus whose berths were lower than the lowers; if they were willing to go higher, they would go lower).
the upper berth passengers had to call for the porter to bring a ladder.
This short video of the interior of a Sleeper at the California Rail Musuem may be of interest
The upper and lower account is older than Abbot and Costello--and is actually much longer than what I wrote. My source, A Treasury of Railroad Folklore, credits it to The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Employes' [sic] Magazine, Vol. VI (February, 1921), No. 1, p. 42, Cleveland, Ohio.
DeggestyAbbot and Costello--and is actually much longer than what I wrote.
Whos on first.
54light15 Absolutely one of the best, if not the funniest moves ever made! if I ever make it out to San Diego, I am staying at the "Del." I don't care what it costs!
I hope you have deep pockets. I was going to have lunch there once for the same basic reason. Decided I couldn't afford it.
ChuckAllen, TX
Yeah, but what's money for anyway? I couldn't really afford a ten dollar beer at the Algonquin Hotel in New York twenty five years ago but I had one anyway. To clarify if anyone needs it, Green Flash is a San Diego micro-brew and is awesome stuff!
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