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[quote user="henry6"] You're right Sam, passenger rail is obviously not a profitable business...neither is air or highway travel.  Any business that needs to employ lots of people to deal with lots and lots and lots of people is not a money maker...Greyhound and the airlines all are very marginal money makers.  But the only reason airlines and bus companies have been able to exist as well as they have is because of huge government subsidies and government ownership, maintenance, and operation of the rights of ways and other anciliary services.  Passenger rail doesn't make money because there has not been comperable government infusion of money.  So, since the government is so much in debt, since passeger rail is not worth putting money into, and in order to settle government debts, lets stop government operation of air traffic control, municipal and other governement ownership of airports, get a royalty from the airplane manufacturers for all planes sold to private enterprise which uses technology and hardware developed for military aircraft.  On the ground, all highways should be sold off to private companies, perhaps the trucking companies or the bus companies to build, maintain, and police; municipal governments might find buyers/operators for city streets and rural roads, too.  That way the cost of all transportation will be bornt by the users who receive the income from their use.  And the government(s) would be rid of the costs and the debts. <div style="clear:both;"></div> [/quote] In FY09 Amtrak received an average federal subsidy of 19.17 cents per passenger mile.   The commercial airlines received an average federal subsidy of .77 cents per passenger mile, whilst motorists, including commercial bus operators, received an average federal subsidy of .24 cents per passenger mile.  These figures are before accounting for ARRA funds.  Amtrak has received the greatest amount of per mile ARRA funds.  These numbers can be found in the annual reports of Amtrak, FAA, DOT, and Homeland Security. <o:p>I made a typo in this post.  The average federal subsidy for Amtrak should read 19.17 cents per passenger mile.  This is the operating subsidy.  If one included the capital payments, the amount would have been 29.88 cents per passenger mile, but this overstates the current subsidy.  Sorry about that.</o:p> Seldom mentioned in these forums is the fact that <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">America</st1:place></st1:country-region>’s railroads received significant subsidies from a variety of governments to jump start their construction.  The most prominent example is the first transcontinental railroad (CP and UP), which could not have been built at the time without large government subsidies.  They got $16,000, $32,000, or $48,000 per mile, plus land grants, for every mile of rail constructed.  Out of this process arose one of the country's worst financial scandals (Credit Mobilier).  Even the earliest railroads received government subsidies.  For example, opening construction of the B&O was funded in part by bonds backed by the City of <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Baltimore</st1:place></st1:city>.  And the PRR got its start thanks in part to funding backed by the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">Commonwealth</st1:placetype> of <st1:placename w:st="on">Pennsylvania</st1:placename></st1:place>. You claim that airports, airlines, highways, etc. have received huge subsidies from the government, without mentioning that most of these so-called subsidies have been paid for through user fees.  But you don’t offer any concrete numbers. Accountants have a key concept called sunk costs.  In a nutshell, it means that whatever has happened in the past is irrelevant to framing a current problem and devising an appropriate solution.  Moreover, whethere the government has or is unfairly subsidizing other forms of transporation is irrelevant.  What is the current transport problem for which passenger rail (high speed, moderate, etc.) is the optimum solution? This is the key question.  Samuelson's argument, irrespective of whether one agrees with him is simple.  High speed rail is not a good outcome.
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