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[quote user="schlimm"] [quote user="Sam1"] [quote user="schlimm"] Mr. Azema says "the line (Paris-Lyon) has paid for itself." The statement stands on its own merits, unless you are now claiming to know that he is lying. [/quote] I don't recall claiming anyone is lying.  [/quote]  Your statement:  "In addition, the GAO has looked at the TGV, amongst other high speed rail systems, and concluded that all of them depend on the hoist [sic!] country government to pay for the infrastructure.  That is to say, the capital costs.  They have not paid for themselves, if by that term one means from the user's fares, and it is highly improbably that they ever will." You are unwilling to back up your statement with actual contradictory information.  You claim that Mr. Azema's statement is incorrect, so by that logic he is either ignorant of accounting facts, delusional or lying.  Take your choice, but disputing a competent official's statement requires more than just saying it is wrong. Here is a link to the GAO report: <A href="http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09317.pdf" mce_href="http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09317.pdf">http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09317.pdf</A> Among other things, it calls for a dedicated ticket tax for rail funding, much like the dedicated tax funding for highways and airports, instead of unreliable funding from general revenue.[/quote] As I pointed out about a year ago, in another discussion on high speed rail, I read the five year financial statements for the French, German, Spanish, and Japanese high speed rail projects, as well as the financials for their supporting government sponsored corporations.  Moreover, I read the corresponding government financials for the same period.  In addition, I read the GAO report. My readings were made about 12 to 15 months ago.  I noted the key findings.  One of the key findings was the absorption by the sponsoring governments of some or all of the capital costs.  I have directed anyone who is interested in learning about the accounting and financing associated with these projects to the authoritative accounting and financial sources, which you might have seen if you had read my initial post carefully.  I have neither the time or desire to school you in the intricacies of government accounting and finance.  Calling for a dedicated ticket tax does not obviate the key conclusions of the audit report.  High speed rail projects require significant government intervention.   Clearly, a ticket tax to pay for the infrastructure is a significant infusion of government money.  The sentence is just one of thousands of sentences in the report.  Determining how the government money is capitalized and subsequently adjusted, if at all, forms the basis for determing whether passenger rail projects are profitable, which is to say, whether they have paid for themselves.  A ticket tax to pay for the capitalized cost of the project would, in all probability, raise the fares to the point where the railroad would be unable to compete.  This would be the case in the NEC.  The primary reason high speed rail is able to compete is because the sponsoring governments have under written the capital costs and then, in effect, in many instances written off some or all of the capital costs.  It is similar to restructuring a mortgage.  The bank eats part of the principal, thereby making the monthly payments affordable for the borrower. I did not say anything about Mr. Azema.  There is no logical or other conclusion that can be taken from a statement that was not made.  Such a conclusion is absurd.  He did not give us any detailed accounting and financial information on which he formed the basis for his assertion.      Highlighting comments in color or bold is a form of shouting in a forum and email.  If you want to quote me, the proper way to do so is with quotation marks "....."
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