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Amtrak in North Carolina

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  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • 6,099 posts
Posted by Phoebe Vet on Thursday, April 14, 2011 8:09 AM

Sam1

Amtrak, by comparison, pays no taxes whatsoever.   

Do you suppose that has anything to do with the fact that they are a government owned company?

I used to fly state government owned aircraft, and drove state government owned vehicles.  We didn't pay fuel taxes, either.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,834 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:11 PM

daveklepper

Just a technical note.   If the electrification were extended to Richmond, replacing bridges and overpasses may prove far more expensive than modifying electric locomotives, new or existing, to have dc third rail capability and have the catenary interrupted at the tight spots for automatic switch to third rail operaton.   If DC, the voltage probably can be 1000V, not 600, and there can be two third rails, one on each side of the track.   That way, eventually freight power can also use the electrification and have enough current capacity for a decent sized train's locomotive power.

There are a host of problems. The first is tresspassers. When you lived in NYC you noticed the protective fences and other barriers to prevent contact with 3rd rails. MOW workers have much more handicaps to maintain the track and ROW due to third rail and extra long crossties vs an overhead CAT. Suspect that would be a no - no on CSX. Why get Ward more upset? Since the Class 1s standard clearance for CAT is 23'6" the overhead clearance problems with cranes and other high maintenance equipment is mitigated and you can easily isolate CAT if the fouling of CAT is possible.

The second problem is DC current EMF causing signals to malfunction requiring more robust and more frequent signal systems that would have to replace present signal systems. At a cost of ~ $500K - $1M per signal sets that is both an initial and continuing expense.  

DC feeders need to be much larger to carry current even at 1000V and rails have to be grounded much better to prevent a trickle voltage to ground occurring. Also 1000 V requires additional protection per NEC code requirements vs 600 V.

Any grade crossing require additional protection to prevent collisions from shorting out the third rail and subsequent dangers.

A 25Kv AC overhead CAT only requires about 200 Amps to provide power to 4 locos ( motors ) in a consist. 200A means only about a feeder of 4-O size.

High return AC current thru the rails can be mitigated by using an opposite feeder on the CAT suppports that is 180 degrees out of phase (ie CAT is +25Kv and return -25Kv much like your home is wired. By use of a center tap auto transformer system to provide these feeders also mitigates any EMF from the CAT to just an oval about 2 ft around the CAT wires (makes Wi-Fi able to be used). Not using it causes an EMF interferrence oval  from above CAT to and including the rails.

Finally is power stations. An auto transformer center tap system only requires access to the national power grid about every 40 miles with simple Auto transformer locations about every 10 miles from substations. These auto transformers are connected to the +25Kv and -25Kv feeders with rails connected to the center tap. These auto transformers allow the voltages to balance in a manner I do not fully understand. The above spacings allow for a ~ 99%+ continuation of service with the failure of an auto transformer or a main substation.

 DC third rail requires a substation about every 2 - 4 miles to prevent too much voltage and current drop. The Milwaukee's 3000 V overhead had substations every 10 miles but limited use to 1 train between substations.? That allowed 2 substations to feed the train. The track required local street car/light rail type bonding of all joints.

I believe that the raising of clearances will be less costly than adding DC sections and making dual current locos. Raising clearances will be a one time cost where as each time a loco (motor) is bought the extra  ~ $1M for each motor is a continuing expense. Someone familar with the WASH - Richmond line may have an idea of how many low clearances are involved?. The only one I know is Long Bridge over the Potomac river that is slated for replacement anyway so that bridge should not be considered. Granted road bridges over the CSX line may need raising but some are already considered substandard and are being replaced to the required clearances by VRE .

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