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[quote user="oltmannd"][quote user="Paul Milenkovic"]For one thing, I am looking for some manner of social contract, some "engineering system boundary around the subsidized portion of the system", so people would just plain give up on the complaint, "why are people complaining about Amtrak subsidy and don't-get-me-started-about-the-airlines!"  Put the modes on a level playing field and call it a day.  But once you do that, don't come back complaining about how the low level of support for Amtrak is "unfair" and how rail is "underfunded."[/quote]I think that is a very astute way of thinking. It's all about "the rules of the game". There are never really any truly "fair" rules or "wholly level playing field". I think the suggestion that construction can be subsidized and operations should cover costs is about as good a set of new rules as we can expect. Of couse, it still isn't perfect. There very well may be cases where their are more total monetized benefits to running subsidized service than an unsubsidized one, but if you make the rules too difficult to understand and apply, the game becomes too hard to play and everyone loses.[/quote] I don't have a problem with subsidizing the initial construction costs for transport infrastructure.  In fact, I support it as being the only realistic alternative to developing new transport capabilities.  But at the end of the day the users should pay directly the operating costs and the infrastructure costs.  They should know what the system is costing them.  That means, amongst other things, highway users, as an example, should foot the entire bill, through fuel taxes and fees, for the highways and support services that they use.  The same concept should apply to passenger rail, airways, etc. As it is motorists only pay a portion of the cost of the roadways and support services that they use through fuel taxes.  The remainder is paid via general taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes.  Given the large number of motorists in the U.S., most of them pay these taxes, which in turn flow back in part to cover the cost of the roadways.  But they don't see the true cost and, therefore, don't know how much it costs to drive as opposed to using alternative modes of transport.  If they did, they might very well change their behavior.  Subsidies can cause people to behave in a sub-optium manner.  For example, because Americans don't wear the full cost of driving or at least don't see it directly, they have opted for relatively large, gas guzzling vehicles that create a lot of upstream and downstream problems.  Unfortunately, the probability of getting rid of subsidies, which is the position that I favor, is slim and none.  And I know it.
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