In March will be taking a Kansas-Michigan trip which focal point will be the all day roundtrip from Chicago-Pontiac. Been reading schedules from ORG's and from a historical viewpoint, what can any of you share about service during the NYC era? What would have been the trains to ride, was this good service or not? Any personal experiences? Also in current day terms, any sights worth seeing from the coach window?
The New York Central's Detroit - Chicago service did not go through Pontiac, but through Ann Arbor, was is now the NS main. The Twilight LImited, evening departure from both Chicago and Detroit was an excellent and fast train, with a fine dining car, parlors, and comfortable coaches, both in the heavyweight and streamlined eras, and it received lightweight equipment before WWII. Other trains were only slightly less good, always with a good diner at meal times, and certainly fine service if you rode parlor. But toward the end of the 1950's or early '60's, economies were made, the parlors and diners removed, snack car service subsitute on all trains, and the Twilight LImited name dropped, and I had just one experience with this service and an somewhat stale cheese sandwhich around 1967 and immediately switched my patronage to the Grand Trunk Western's Mowhawk, which ran Chicago - Detroit both ways in the evening via Durand and Pontiac. Excellent food and comfortable coaches, with much of the equipment actually rebuilt heavyweights to look like streamlined lightweights. The Central still had one decent train, the through equipment to New York via Detroit, and that train did have a diner (and lightweight coaches and sleepers). But the times was inconvenient. The last time I rode between the two cities was in 1970, using the Mowhawk, and somene else can pick up the thread for years after that.
The Central used Hudsons and then E-7's in the service. The Grand Trunk used if my memory is correct FP-7's and FP-9's, but sometimes boiler eqipped GP-7's or GP-9's, and these were just as fast.
[quote user="daveklepper"]
But toward the end of the 1950's or early '60's, economies were made, the parlors and diners removed, snack car service subsitute on all trains, and the Twilight LImited name dropped, and I had just one experience with this service and an somewhat stale cheese sandwhich around 1967 and immediately switched my patronage to the Grand Trunk Western's Mowhawk, which ran Chicago - Detroit both ways in the evening via Durand and Pontiac. Excellent food and comfortable coaches, with much of the equipment actually rebuilt heavyweights to look like streamlined lightweights. The Central still had one decent train, the through equipment to New York via Detroit, and that train did have a diner (and lightweight coaches and sleepers). But the times was inconvenient. The last time I rode between the two cities was in 1970, using the Mowhawk, and somene else can pick up the thread for years after that.
Sorry Dave, but it wasn't the Mohawk. Looking at the 1967 CN TT, that train (#'s 153 & 154) ran Toronto to Sarnia. The CN -GTW ran two trains from Detroit to Chicago: #169, connecting at Durand with #159, The Maple Leaf, leaving Detroit at 12:30 pm, arrival at Dearborn Station in Chicago at 6:15 pm. The other train, #165 (no name) left Detroit at 4:30 pm, arriving in Chicago at 9:10 pm (5 hrs. 40 min.). Both trains had coach and club car seats and "dining facilities available."
As late as a 1962 NYC TT, there were 5 trains each way, the two best being the Wolverine (5 hrs. 15 min. to Chicago's LaSalle St. Station) and then the Twilight Ltd. (just 5 minutes slower) leaving at 5:15 pm, with coach, lounge, & dining on both, and a parlor car on the Twilight only.
My father used to ride the NYC, Chi-Det.. Those were the days!!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Sorry Dave, but it wasn't the Mohawk. Looking at the 1967 CN TT, that train (#'s 153 & 154) ran Toronto to Sarnia. The CN -GTW ran two trains from Detroit to Chicago: #169, connecting at Durand with #159, The Maple Leaf, leaving Detroit at 12:30 pm, arrival at Dearborn Station in Chicago at 6:15 pm. The other train, #165 (no name) left Detroit at 4:30 pm, arriving in Chicago at 9:10 pm (5 hrs. 40 min.). Both trains had coach and club car seats and "dining facilities available."
The Chicago-Detroit unnamed train you mentioned (#164 and 165) was actually named the Mohawk based on schedules dated 10/29/67. The December 1967 Official Guide shows a Toronto-Sarnia run named the Mohawk, and the previously mentioned unnamed late afternoon through Chicago-Detroit train. But, the February 1968 Official Guide shows the same Toronto-Sarnia and Chicago-Detroit trains again, but this time both trains were named the Mohawk.
That may be the Guide version, but I am looking at a CN timetable dated 10/29/1967 through 4/27/1968 and it clearly shows the Mohawk is trains # 153-154. I believe the railroad timetable is likely to be accurate.
schlimm That may be the Guide version, but I am looking at a CN timetable dated 10/29/1967 through 4/27/1968 and it clearly shows the Mohawk is trains # 153-154. I believe the railroad timetable is likely to be accurate.
Well, the Official Guide got its information from the railroads directly and because it was a monthly publication, it was able to relay the most current information available. In comparing the December 1967 and February 1968 issues, #153-154 is named the Mohawk in both issues. But for #164-165, with a timetable date of 10/29/67 in both issues, the December 1967 issue does not show a name for those trains. The February 1968 issue shows the those trains as the Mohawk. Apparently, the GTW decided to name #164-165 the Mohawk during the life of that particular CN timetable.
I noted that I switched to the GTW in 1967, after one bad experience on the downgraded NYC train, and I assure you that the departure board said "Mowhawk." Earlier, I did try the GTW once, in the summer of 1952. A Pacific, 4-6-2, with standard clerestory roof coaches, the combine right behind the Pacific, pointed properly, and it had 6-wheel trucks (possibly the coaches did also, don't remember). New York Central steam power was always in fine mechanical condition, but was often grimy compared to the regularly washed coaches. But the GTW Pacific shined. And so did the coaches, inside and out. A classic "American passenger train." Possibly the smokebox was silver-painted. I don't recall if the coaches were air-conditioned, and it was not that hot outside. But at that time most NYC trains, certainly the Twilight Limited, were all with modern reclining-seat air-conditioned coaches. I think that at one time the Twilight Limited had its own streamlined Hudson or Pacific, somewhat along the lines of the 20th Century and Empire Builder streamlined Hudsons, but that was before I started riding. Usual power was a Hudson, J-1a or J3a, until E-7's bumped by E-8's on the Century and Southwestern Limited took over/
The name of the one through train that still carried a diner during the NYC austerity period was the Woverine, and it ran through to NYCity with through sleepers to Boston, sometimes coaches also during college break periods. But soon after that all major east-west NYC trains were combined into one between Buffalo and Albany-Rennselaer, and the no-name train was nicknamed "The steel Fleet." So one could board it earlier and go through Detroit and an hour or so later and go through Toledo and Cleveland.
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