In light of today's news wire article about florida wanting to restore service along FEC from Miami to Jacksonville I was wondering - I figure the FEC tracks will be used from jax to west palm - at which point Amtrak would switch over to CSX tracks for the rest of the way down to miami. However, there is no direct connector north of the west palm beach amtrak station that would allow the switchover - there is a connector, however it would require a backup movement. Would Amtrak simply do the backup movement or would they build a connector so that Amtrak could go through with no backup? I know that space is very tight there, however there is a slight open field by the FEC tracks where a connector could possibly be built - but it would be tight, maybe too tight, I'm not certain hopefully someone with more RR could enlighten me. If you want to look in google earth the coordinates of the spot I'm talking about are 26.737429° -80.058720°
Things I have heard is for movement to continue on FEC to Miami....there has also been talk about expanding Tri-Rail service along the FEC alignment. Time & money will tell.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Why would they put Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm Beach?
1. The FEC and CSX tracks perfectly parallel each other south of West Palm
2. The CSX tracks already have stations and are up to Amtrak standards, saving money
3. If you enter Miami on the FEC tracks there is A) No access to the current Amtrak Station B) No access to the future Miami Airport Station where Amtrak is going to move to in about a year (without going through the FEC yard and all the way around MIA airpot) and C) absolutely no room to build any kind of connector tracks to those stations without knocking down buildings.
Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach.
So my original question remains - given the coordinates that I layed out in my first post, would there even be enough room to build a connector there? I know it's not an ideal spot but there is no other better spot anywhere further south...
And why do we have the Florida Turnpike and I-95 virtually a stones throw from each other from Jupiter through most of the Miami Metropolitan area, with the Turnpike continuing to Florida City. Same kinds of forces are at play.
Sawtooth500 Why would they put Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm Beach? Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach. So my original question remains - given the coordinates that I layed out in my first post, would there even be enough room to build a connector there? I know it's not an ideal spot but there is no other better spot anywhere further south...
Sawtooth500 Why would they put Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm Beach? 1. The FEC and CSX tracks perfectly parallel each other south of West Palm 2. The CSX tracks already have stations and are up to Amtrak standards, saving money 3. If you enter Miami on the FEC tracks there is A) No access to the current Amtrak Station B) No access to the future Miami Airport Station where Amtrak is going to move to in about a year (without going through the FEC yard and all the way around MIA airpot) and C) absolutely no room to build any kind of connector tracks to those stations without knocking down buildings. Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach. So my original question remains - given the coordinates that I layed out in my first post, would there even be enough room to build a connector there? I know it's not an ideal spot but there is no other better spot anywhere further south...
The prevailing assumption about shifting Tri-Rail and Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm is that the FEC tracks goes through more centrally located areas in those cities where the trains would stop. Yes, the FEC and the Tri-Rail (former CSX) lines parallel each other, but the FEC line is one to two miles east of the CSX line. For example, in Fort Lauderdale, the Tri-Rail/Amtrak station on the former CSX line is right next to I-95 and frankly not in the best of areas, The FEC line through Fort Lauderdale cuts through downtown, and would be within walking distance to shopping and offices in that area. The thought is that a FEC-centric commuter service would be more attractive to commuters as opposed to the current service. Will the shift happen? - I don't know. The general consensus is that the shift of Amtrak service to the FEC to West Palm and the Tri-Rail line south of there is the most likely scenario. Shifting Tri-Rail and Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm is still in the "would be nice" category. Of course the issue of getting into Miami and the airport from the FEC hasn't been fleshed out.
As for the practical consideration of physically shifting the Amtrak trains from the FEC to the Tri-Rail line, I don't know how that will be accomplished.
ZephyrOverland Sawtooth500: Why would they put Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm Beach? 1. The FEC and CSX tracks perfectly parallel each other south of West Palm 2. The CSX tracks already have stations and are up to Amtrak standards, saving money 3. If you enter Miami on the FEC tracks there is A) No access to the current Amtrak Station B) No access to the future Miami Airport Station where Amtrak is going to move to in about a year (without going through the FEC yard and all the way around MIA airpot) and C) absolutely no room to build any kind of connector tracks to those stations without knocking down buildings. Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach. So my original question remains - given the coordinates that I layed out in my first post, would there even be enough room to build a connector there? I know it's not an ideal spot but there is no other better spot anywhere further south... The prevailing assumption about shifting Tri-Rail and Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm is that the FEC tracks goes through more centrally located areas in those cities where the trains would stop. Yes, the FEC and the Tri-Rail (former CSX) lines parallel each other, but the FEC line is one to two miles east of the CSX line. For example, in Fort Lauderdale, the Tri-Rail/Amtrak station on the former CSX line is right next to I-95 and frankly not in the best of areas, The FEC line through Fort Lauderdale cuts through downtown, and would be within walking distance to shopping and offices in that area. The thought is that a FEC-centric commuter service would be more attractive to commuters as opposed to the current service. Will the shift happen? - I don't know. The general consensus is that the shift of Amtrak service to the FEC to West Palm and the Tri-Rail line south of there is the most likely scenario. Shifting Tri-Rail and Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm is still in the "would be nice" category. Of course the issue of getting into Miami and the airport from the FEC hasn't been fleshed out. As for the practical consideration of physically shifting the Amtrak trains from the FEC to the Tri-Rail line, I don't know how that will be accomplished.
Sawtooth500: Why would they put Amtrak service on the FEC south of West Palm Beach? 1. The FEC and CSX tracks perfectly parallel each other south of West Palm 2. The CSX tracks already have stations and are up to Amtrak standards, saving money 3. If you enter Miami on the FEC tracks there is A) No access to the current Amtrak Station B) No access to the future Miami Airport Station where Amtrak is going to move to in about a year (without going through the FEC yard and all the way around MIA airpot) and C) absolutely no room to build any kind of connector tracks to those stations without knocking down buildings. Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach. So my original question remains - given the coordinates that I layed out in my first post, would there even be enough room to build a connector there? I know it's not an ideal spot but there is no other better spot anywhere further south...
Zephyr - at one point you say "shifting" Amtrak service to the FEC south of West Palm - have you heard any rumors of shifting the current trains to the FEC? If anything, I thought that it would be the new Amtrak train from Jax that would run down the FEC and the current ones would still go via Orlando.
Also didn't know that the other tracks are now owned by Tri-Rail. Does CSX still provide freight service on them?
Sawtooth500 2. The CSX tracks already have stations and are up to Amtrak standards, saving money 3. If you enter Miami on the FEC tracks there is A) No access to the current Amtrak Station B) No access to the future Miami Airport Station where Amtrak is going to move to in about a year (without going through the FEC yard and all the way around MIA airpot) and C) absolutely no room to build any kind of connector tracks to those stations without knocking down buildings. Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach.
I would suspect that at first that any FEC service would get on the CSX trackage thru the connections north of Magnolia Park (although this is industrial trackage served by both FEC and CSX) since that would probably cost less than the old connection by the 1931 hurricane cemetery connecting TriRail tracks to the FEC (the ROW and track is still there but is excepted track just north of West Palm Beach station amount of useage unknown )
Once Miami Central Station (at the airport) is completed it would be possible for future service to go down the FEC but that would require 3 - 4 new stations to be built at considerable cost.
Connecting from the FEC to TriRail tracks at Iris interlocking ( FEC - TriRail Automatic interlocking at grade crossing with 2 tracks each RR) would require several warehouses to be demolished in the SE quadrant for a connecting track.
TriRail thoughtfully when they double tracked put a CP far enough south of Iris to enable a future connection to the FEC.
The FEC is right hand current of traffic ABS at Iris so some kind of control point would need to be established on FEC east of Iris to enable Compass west AMTRAK trains to cross over from the north track to the south track and then a switch for the connecting track to TriRail then on to Miami Central Station. (MCS)
Will any of this happen? Only with some heavy financing and the ability to tack onto AMTRAK's present order of single level cars the requisite number of cars needed for any FEC service.
AMTRAK might stop at Metro rail transfer to pick up passengers until the metro rail is finished to MCS.
Use of Miami Central Station will raise AMTRAK's costs due to the necessity of having a switch crew back the equipment to/from Miami Central station to the yard. Switch crew longer on duty, train crew longer on duty, trackage costs from yard to MCS, ETC. Given the present federal cost containment that could be a death sentence for this service.
Sawtooth500 Zephyr - at one point you say "shifting" Amtrak service to the FEC south of West Palm - have you heard any rumors of shifting the current trains to the FEC? If anything, I thought that it would be the new Amtrak train from Jax that would run down the FEC and the current ones would still go via Orlando. Also didn't know that the other tracks are now owned by Tri-Rail. Does CSX still provide freight service on them?
I've heard and read in the local press that either one train would be shifted on the FEC or additional service will be provided on the FEC and will connect to the current trains in Jacksonville or even both. At this point I'll believe it when I see it. The FEC physically is in excellent shape but the passenger support facilities are non existent. In most cases you can only picture in your mind's eye where the stations once stood.
The former SAL line between West Palm and Miami is now owned by Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties and CSX does still provide freight service.
blue streak 1 Sawtooth500: 2. The CSX tracks already have stations and are up to Amtrak standards, saving money 3. If you enter Miami on the FEC tracks there is A) No access to the current Amtrak Station B) No access to the future Miami Airport Station where Amtrak is going to move to in about a year (without going through the FEC yard and all the way around MIA airpot) and C) absolutely no room to build any kind of connector tracks to those stations without knocking down buildings. Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach. I would suspect that at first that any FEC service would get on the CSX trackage thru the connections north of Magnolia Park (although this is industrial trackage served by both FEC and CSX) since that would probably cost less than the old connection by the 1931 hurricane cemetery connecting TriRail tracks to the FEC (the ROW and track is still there but is excepted track just north of West Palm Beach station amount of useage unknown ) Once Miami Central Station (at the airport) is completed it would be possible for future service to go down the FEC but that would require 3 - 4 new stations to be built at considerable cost. Connecting from the FEC to TriRail tracks at Iris interlocking ( FEC - TriRail Automatic interlocking at grade crossing with 2 tracks each RR) would require several warehouses to be demolished in the SE quadrant for a connecting track. TriRail thoughtfully when they double tracked put a CP far enough south of Iris to enable a future connection to the FEC. The FEC is right hand current of traffic ABS at Iris so some kind of control point would need to be established on FEC east of Iris to enable Compass west AMTRAK trains to cross over from the north track to the south track and then a switch for the connecting track to TriRail then on to Miami Central Station. (MCS) Will any of this happen? Only with some heavy financing and the ability to tack onto AMTRAK's present order of single level cars the requisite number of cars needed for any FEC service. AMTRAK might stop at Metro rail transfer to pick up passengers until the metro rail is finished to MCS. Use of Miami Central Station will raise AMTRAK's costs due to the necessity of having a switch crew back the equipment to/from Miami Central station to the yard. Switch crew longer on duty, train crew longer on duty, trackage costs from yard to MCS, ETC. Given the present federal cost containment that could be a death sentence for this service.
Sawtooth500: 2. The CSX tracks already have stations and are up to Amtrak standards, saving money 3. If you enter Miami on the FEC tracks there is A) No access to the current Amtrak Station B) No access to the future Miami Airport Station where Amtrak is going to move to in about a year (without going through the FEC yard and all the way around MIA airpot) and C) absolutely no room to build any kind of connector tracks to those stations without knocking down buildings. Given the fact that they are building the Miami airport station, and investing their money there as the future for rail transit in Miami, and that FEC has no access to that station I'd say it's unlikely that passengers trains would run on the FEC south of West Palm Beach.
Would Amtrak trains going through the Magnolia Park industrial lead really cost less? A back up move would still be required as there is no northbound connection from the lead onto the FEC, and no way to build one without demolishing warehouses. At the hurricane cemetary connection there MAY be enough room to build a very tight connector without any demo (although someone with better RR knowledge would have to look on Google Earth and make a judgement), or if demo would be required it would only be one small apartment building. Not to mention that the hurricane cemetery connection is a lot shorter that traversing the entire magnolia industrial lead.... And specifically I'm talking about trains going north from west palm on the FEC and south on Tri-Rail, if you want to go south on FEC from west palm and then north on CSX either the cemetary or magnolia connections already provide routes with no required back up movements.
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