Monona Terrace

[Paul Milenkovic]

http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12439489

You heard it hear first.  The Wisconsin Governor Doyle, WisDOT Secretary Busalacchi, Dane County Executive Falk, and Madison Mayor (aw, heck, I can't spell it) Cieslewicz have announced that the Madison, Wisconsin train station is going in at Monona Terrace in the Madison Downtown.

[desertdog]

Paul Milenkovic

http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12439489

You heard it hear first.  The Wisconsin Governor Doyle, WisDOT Secretary Busalacchi, Dane County Executive Falk, and Madison Mayor (aw, heck, I can't spell it) Cieslewicz have announced that the Madison, Wisconsin train station is going in at Monona Terrace in the Madison Downtown.

After all of the sturm und drang that accompanied this topic the last time around, I am surprised that no one has chimed in with an opinion.

Be that as it may, it was a good decision.  Public transit (and that is clearly what this is) needs to be convenient and take as many people as possible where they want to go in as direct a manner as possible.  Anything that makes it even seem difficult, such as transfers from mode to mode, becomes an impediment and at best adds inefficiency to the process.

John Timm

 

 

 

 

[BNSFwatcher]

"Monona"?  Sounds like a STD.  "Sorry, Baby, but I gots the Monona!".  Maybe Madison can replace the late, lamented "Moon Amtrak" day that is apparently now outlawed in Laguna Niguel, CA.  That would be fun, especially with all those Nordic-type chicks!

Hays 

[CG9602]

I just came from a meeting of the local passenger rail service advocacy group, and they were as surprised as anyone at the selection of downtown over a station along the route between Chicago & Saint Paul. We were all under the impression that the addition of Madison would be part of service improvements between Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, and Saint Paul. Sending any train to central downtown Madison makes a back-up, or reverse, move, across numerous road crossings, at reduced speed.

There is concern that this will be a stub-end station, not the "through" station that many local supporters want here. There was concern over where the Governor got his numbers. When one considers that over 60 percent of passengers using the Madison station will be coming from surrounding communities -- and not, repeat, not university students or tourists -- where are they going to park for long periods of time in that congested downtown? At the airport, there are over 4400 parking spaces, within 100 yards of a possible station location. The downtown station locations do not offer such parking capacity. The focus should be on making the train service as convenient to as many potential customers as possible.

Also note that the Madison airport is closer to downtown than either East or West Town Malls, two of the major shopping centers of the area. Many of the area hotels are more convenient to the airport than downtown as well. Any folks going there for a meeting will have to take a cab no matter what.

Also, there was the fear that this is being made as a sop to those who want to bring commuter rail to Madison, and a concession that the extension to Saint Paul might not be in the cards. That is a big, big disappointment.

Also, no mention was made of re-routing the Empire Builder through Madison, on its' way between Chicago, Milwaukee, and Saint Paul, MN. I think that this would greatly increase the ridership on that train.

I have more notes from the meeting. I'll post more tomorrow.

[BNSFwatcher]

I guess re-routing the Empire Builder thru Madison would work, especially if the State of North Dakota doesn't pull-the-plug on Devil's Lake and the Builder is re-routed, direct, Fargo-Minot.  Timing could maintained.  Sorry, Grand Forks, etc., but that's politics.  BTW, we have huge siphons, out here in Montana, that divert the St. Mary's River.  That would drain Devil's Lake in a heartbeat.  Just a thought for the "Three Stooges" of ND.

Hays

[beaulieu]

BNSFwatcher

I guess re-routing the Empire Builder thru Madison would work, especially if the State of North Dakota doesn't pull-the-plug on Devil's Lake and the Builder is re-routed, direct, Fargo-Minot.  Timing could maintained.  Sorry, Grand Forks, etc., but that's politics.  BTW, we have huge siphons, out here in Montana, that divert the St. Mary's River.  That would drain Devil's Lake in a heartbeat.  Just a thought for the "Three Stooges" of ND.

Hays

 

Hays its the threat of legal action by Canada if they drain Devils Lake into the Souris River that is the problem. I think that what they will do is let nature take its course and when the water level rises enough it will create its own drain into the Souris River and Canada will have little or no recourse. Canada is concerned about problems and costs associated with the increased flow in the Souris, especially in the spring since the Souris is a tributary of the Red River a problematic north flowing river subject to ice dams in the spring.

[BNSFwatcher]

Well, the water has to go somewhere, eventually, not just evaporate.  Mosquitoes can breed elsewhere.  How 'bout waiting for the annual summer drought and lower the water level then?  "Oh!, Canada!" would prob'ly welcome the water . The Minot-Grand Forks stretch of the BNSF is the roughest ride on the Empire Builder, maybe of all Amtrak routes, today.  High water and stick rail aren't nice!  The roughness rivals the old Pennsylvania / Penn Central / Conrail route of the Broad Way Limited through the mid-west and Pennsylvania when Amtrak was "new"!  Maybe heat the lake in the winter to prevent ice build-up, but the "ice fisherman" lobby would be up-in-arms.....

Hays

[CMStPnP]

CG9602

I just came from a meeting of the local passenger rail service advocacy group, and they were as surprised as anyone at the selection of downtown over a station along the route between Chicago & Saint Paul. We were all under the impression that the addition of Madison would be part of service improvements between Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, and Saint Paul. Sending any train to central downtown Madison makes a back-up, or reverse, move, across numerous road crossings, at reduced speed..

 

 

This is why some Passenger Advocacy groups in Wisconsin are their own worst enemy.

I think it was a good move.      Downtown to Downtown makes sense.    As far as the rest of your concerns, they are going to get several BILLION DOLLARS for this project from the Feds, not just $800 million, thats been repeated more then once by the Obama Administration.    

So it's not like they can't dynamite a path through Madison's aging Urban Environment that makes sense.   It's not like it is valuable real estate right now (Wisconsin is stagnating economically and real estate prices are as well).   Anyhoo, I think they should do the project right the first time instead of mucking it up and having to pay higher costs later to correct a bad decision.

[Paul Milenkovic]

CMStPnP

CG9602

I just came from a meeting of the local passenger rail service advocacy group, and they were as surprised as anyone at the selection of downtown over a station along the route between Chicago & Saint Paul. We were all under the impression that the addition of Madison would be part of service improvements between Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, and Saint Paul. Sending any train to central downtown Madison makes a back-up, or reverse, move, across numerous road crossings, at reduced speed..

 

 

This is why some Passenger Advocacy groups in Wisconsin are their own worst enemy.

I think it was a good move.      Downtown to Downtown makes sense.    As far as the rest of your concerns, they are going to get several BILLION DOLLARS for this project from the Feds, not just $800 million, thats been repeated more then once by the Obama Administration.    

So it's not like they can't dynamite a path through Madison's aging Urban Environment that makes sense.   It's not like it is valuable real estate right now (Wisconsin is stagnating economically and real estate prices are as well).   Anyhoo, I think they should do the project right the first time instead of mucking it up and having to pay higher costs later to correct a bad decision.

Outbound passengers, that is passengers originating trips from Madison, Dane County, and outlying areas, are perhaps better served by the airport location, which already has parking.  Inbound passengers, on the other hand, are better served by the Downtown location.

For years now, the talk in the local advocacy group (the LAG, just as the "local hobby store" for the model railroad people has the shorthand LHC), was "economic development", and "what do we do to get local political and business leaders 'on board'."

It seems that we have gotten the local political and business leaders on board with the train, and we have gotten it good and hard.  Economic development indeed!  Think of it, if the choice is making it easier for Madisonians to take trains "somewhere else" or letting non-Madisonians have an easier time of being visitors here, the dollar signs light up in the eyes when the connection is made to the inbound traffic.  What concern is it of Mayor Dave that people from Madison and greater Dane County can drive to the Dane County Regional Airport to take a train to spend money "somewhere else."  Allowing that "somewhere else" to be taken to the heart of the Madison convention-center downtown means that people from all over spend their money here.  Absolutely brilliant.  And that the LAG was "out of the loop"  speaks to our irrelevancy.

[CG9602]

Milwaukee BizTimes expresses skepticism over improved passenger rail prospects, Madison - MKE - Chicago:

"History waits to judge high-speed rail in Wisconsin"