Just got back from a trip on the Northeast Corridor on a Regional train. Wondering what the top speed is for non-Acela trains on the route. Between Washington and New York seemed to be the fastest segment. Anyone know how fast?
By the way the trip was great. We went from Lynchburg all the way to Route 128/Boston on trains 176/171. One seat all the way. Very good ridership and both trains were on time,early or made up time all the way.
bedellJust got back from a trip on the Northeast Corridor on a Regional train. Wondering what the top speed is for non-Acela trains on the route. Between Washington and New York seemed to be the fastest segment. Anyone know how fast?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Some of the late NEC regional trains have been able to go PHL - NYP in 1:06 and I found an Acela at 1:02 but not lately due to the weather..
Speed on the Corridor works well end to end Boston to New York or further and for longer hops, like New Haven to Philadelphia or Wilmington. For instance in planning a Ridewithmehenry trip from New Haven to NYP or Newark I found the Acela is less than 10 minutes faster than the Regionals but $40 or more dollars higher in ticket prices. Execpt for a few amenities, I question if the cost is really justified on such short hops. Similarly the short hops between Washington and Baltimore, Baltimore and Wilmintgton, etc. probably present the same such economic question. On the other hand, the Acela may be the only train on the schedule that hour, too. There is a lot of congestion and less than high speed running especially from Wilmington to Stamford and New Haven.
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Top speed: As far as I know, AEM-7's and Amfleet coaches are allowed 125mph top where track conditions permit. Any heritage equipment would drop this down to 110mph. Much fo the line does not permit such high track speeds, with 90mph being tops anywhere between New Rochelle and New Haven.
I would like to see our trains get up to a 90-120 mph speed. Incremental, yar, but much cheaper, and do-able. The HSR thingie is silliness. One-step-at-a-time. Most of my enjoyment, trainriding, is looking out the window at America. A big "blur" just doesn't work. Of course, I'd outlaw reading, TVs, computers, card games, and other distractions during daylight trips! There's a lot to see, out there!
Hays
Metroliner II, hauled by AEM-7 and earlier GG-1, was 125 MPH service.
Northeast Regional, Northeast Direct, etc., what I like to call "Metroliner III," hauled by AEM-7, is also 125 MPH service, essentially the same as Metroliner II but with older coaches (Metroliner II coaches were Amfleet II, Northeast Regional is now rebuilt Amfleet I).
Acela is 135 MPH, BUT, for folks like me who travel between WAS and NYP the Acela trip is only significantly shorter because it skips more stops than the Regionals do. The Acelas only go 10 MPH faster.
We steer our Amfleet I coaches at 125 MPH with our stomachs.
Oh, speaking of speeds, the speed doesn't really matter. 5 minutes or 15 minutes saved for billions of dollars? Why? Frequency and reliability is way more important, but the politics only say speed matters. So silly.
My eye and neck muscles are sore watching the scenery go by on Acelas.
BNSFwatcher I would like to see our trains get up to a 90-120 mph speed. Incremental, yar, but much cheaper, and do-able. The HSR thingie is silliness. One-step-at-a-time. Most of my enjoyment, trainriding, is looking out the window at America. A big "blur" just doesn't work. Of course, I'd outlaw reading, TVs, computers, card games, and other distractions during daylight trips! There's a lot to see, out there! Hays
So are you putting another burden on Amtrak and anyone else who operates trains services in that they must differentiate between providing trains for those who want to ride trains and providing train service for those who have to travel somewhere?
"Davekelpper" is right on with the speeds. The only time the Acela gets to streach its legs to 150mph is north of Westerly Rhode Island, after to clears the Westerly grade crossings and is under new Catenary. Top speed on "Regional" equipment is limited by breaking on the cars, 125 on "Amfleet", and 110 on wheel brake "Heritage" cars. The designed limit on both the HHP8 and AEM7 is 125, but I have clocked a "meatball" at 129 making up time. Must be the "fudge factor" on the ATC.
Amfleet cars are nice, BUT, when you ride one of the twenty Acela Train Sets, you pay for comfort, ride, and space. No coach class, no standing room around you, better food, mostly business men working there laptops, taking advantage of the Wi-Fi. Large seats, large windows, swing down foot rests, swing up leg rests, and fold down tables. Electrical outlets for your laptop or cell phone right at your seat. Full "Air Ride Suspension".
Don U. TCA 73-5735
DMUinCT"Davekelpper" is right on with the speeds. The only time the Acela gets to streach its legs to 150mph is north of Westerly Rhode Island, after to clears the Westerly grade crossings and is under new Catenary. Top speed on "Regional" equipment is limited by breaking on the cars, 125 on "Amfleet", and 110 on wheel brake "Heritage" cars. The designed limit on both the HHP8 and AEM7 is 125, but I have clocked a "meatball" at 129 making up time. Must be the "fudge factor" on the ATC.
The Amtrak fleet plan listed all the equipment speeds and there were some surprizes.
Acela 150
HHP 8 135
AEM-7 125
P42 ,P32DM,F59 110
P40,P32-8,GP32,F40 Cabbage 100
Various diesel switchers 50 - 65
Talgo all 125
Amfleet I & II, Cab car,Horizon 125
Viewliner 110
Heritage 110
Surfliner 125
Pacific parlor 110
Superliners I & II, California cars, 100
Ca corridor (4 rebuilt SLs) 100
These figures indicate that there are alot of equipment restraints. If viewliners are only 110 then the LD sleeper trains on the NEC cannot match the timekeeping of the other NEC trains such as the Regionals, and the coach trains south (Palmetto). The rebuilt P-40's 100 will keep them off some of the proposed lines as well (ex Detroit, St. Louis,Empire)
The SL cars at only 100 appears to be low but I cannot find anything to the contrary. Also the viewliners at 110? No matter what the equipment limit speeds are if it is financially Ok there may be some upgrading of these speeds. The P-40's 100 May have use if this is a gearing situation beause even with the lower gearing they may accelerate faster at its lower HP.
The present fleet plans are to buy conventional 150 MPH single level cars. Surfliner types??a
The diesel locomotive types to be purchased are to be 125 MPH, electric motors 150, Acelas?.
It appears that Amtrak has finally realized that it needs to have more compatible equipment for overall interchangeability and not a hodge - podge of equipment specs.
The piece of track between Princeton Junction and Brunswick was upgraded in the 60's for testing the 160 mph Metroliners. Every Metroliner pair made a 160 mph qualifying run before it was accepted. Have not been on it for years but suspect it remains one of the best.
aegrotatioMetroliner II, hauled by AEM-7 and earlier GG-1, was 125 MPH service.
Yes, I heard the GG1's speedometers pegged at 100. And there are legendary stories about them, beyond that,too.
And, yes, too, the track between New Brunswick and Princeton Jct.is still a fast track. I think the two inside tracks have the higher, 125 mph, speeds which is mostly Acela and Regional, with some NJT expresses thrown in. Interestingly, the NJT Employees System TT of a year ago has speed limits and posting for every piece of track except the Corridor though it lists station stops, block stations, and CP's.
I never heard of a GG-1 allowed more than 100mph legally, but I am certain I have ridden behind them at well over that speed, at least 110mph and possibly higher. The track used for testing the Metroliners was later degraded for top speed to only 125 mph because of the old condition of the catenary. The catenary there still has not been replaced.
Jerry Pier The piece of track between Princeton Junction and Brunswick was upgraded in the 60's for testing the 160 mph Metroliners. Every Metroliner pair made a 160 mph qualifying run before it was accepted. Have not been on it for years but suspect it remains one of the best.
In the case of the Acela, the long level run under the Constance Tension Catenary in southern Rhode Island (Kingston) was used for qualifiication testing. The Acela had to reach 165mph, it made it to 168mph.
The Kingston Flatlands
Aegrotatio above is right on the money: frequency & reliability! In those corridors like NEC where the necessary ingredients all line up -- population density, trip miles, air & highway congestion -- a few extra miles an hour (costing billions more) shouldn't be that important. Just fix up the bridges and catenary!
For the longer rides where much higher speed might be attractive ... better make sure enough demand is there to pay a significant share of the operating expenses. On the other hand, Ohio spending $4 billion in HSR money for 39 mph end-to-end, Cleveland-Cincinnati, is a non-starter. I wouldn't ride it ... and I'm a lifelong train nut who is retired!
dakotafred Aegrotatio above is right on the money: frequency & reliability! In those corridors like NEC where the necessary ingredients all line up -- population density, trip miles, air & highway congestion -- a few extra miles an hour (costing billions more) shouldn't be that important. Just fix up the bridges and catenary!
The reliability of PHL - NYP appears to be fairly good. Some eary arrivals both ways nowdays. The frequency also appears amost hourly except weekends of both Acela and Regionals
Just NYP - PHL can be quicker by 15 minutes which will get Acela under 1 Hr... Constant tension 5 min, 500 million; curves Elizabeth, Lincoln, NE Phl 2 minutes 500 M; Portal bridge ( already started ) 1 - 2 minutes ( appears underestimated especially if a major failure occurrs ) 1.8 B . Signal upgrades ( respacing, additonal interlockings, etc ) 5 minutes 50M. Other unspecified 2 min.
This will total 15 min which will get Acelas under 1 Hr and Regionals 110. There are other items listed that along with the above will reduce time 23 min. That will get regional all just over 1 Hr NYP - PHL.
This translates into less slow time with Acelas under 55 min 3 stop and Regionals 1:05 with 5 stops. If it was not for the required Portal bridges being constructed this heavy route coud be completed for just over $1B.
daveklepperI never heard of a GG-1 allowed more than 100mph legally, but I am certain I have ridden behind them at well over that speed, at least 110mph and possibly higher. The track used for testing the Metroliners was later degraded for top speed to only 125 mph because of the old condition of the catenary. The catenary there still has not been replaced.
Just on other note. The GG1 hauled Metroliners were supposed to be stop-gap until the original Metroliners came back from rebuilding at GE. The rebuild was a flop and the rebuilds only ran a year of so before the AEM7 hauled "Metroliner Service" took over and the Metroliners became Capitoliners in Philly to Harrisburg service.
I told this story once before, possibly even on this site but here goes. Pardon me if you heard it before. I heard this from an NJT engineer who had worked for Penn Central and the PRR before that. He was on NJT's North Coast Line which used the big motors between South Amboy and NYC up until October of 1983. The guy was up there in years and undoubtedly as close to the end of his career as the G he was operating. As the eastbound GG1 pulled out from the stop at Rahway one of the new Swedish meatballs approached. Our nameless engineer hated these things ( he didn't very much like the E60's either but tolerated them as he knew he could beat them any day in the week). Throwing caution to the winds he notched the G to full power and kept it there. The two were running neck and neck for miles on the NEC. Whatever the AEM 7 was doing on that stretch the G was keeping up. Unfortunately he blew through the stop at Elizabeth and a slightly early retirement ensued. How fast was that GG1 going ? Whatever the top speed of the AEM 7 was at this stretch the G could match it.
No question, the GG1 was one of the best locomotives designes, ever. They were the best under 25 HTz, 11,000 volt Catenary designed by Westinghouse in 1900 and installed by the Pennsylvania in the 1930s.
The extention of electrification northward and needed added trains and capacity in an expanding market required the purchase of Commercial High Voltage Power at the national standard 60HTz. It's the cost of converting to 60 cycle power and solid state control that mover the mighty GG1, a fast and beautiful locomotive, to museums.
But lets not undercut the quality of the plant. One time Electrical Engineer for PRR/PC/CR, Nelson Bowers, once pointed with pride how the PRR electric system was capable of delivereing a full load of power to Sunnyside Yard from south of Philadelphia when needed by power outages, and other problems. It was a well built, well maintained system which was part of the success of the GG1.
henry6 But lets not undercut the quality of the plant. One time Electrical Engineer for PRR/PC/CR, Nelson Bowers, once pointed with pride how the PRR electric system was capable of delivereing a full load of power to Sunnyside Yard from south of Philadelphia when needed by power outages, and other problems. It was a well built, well maintained system which was part of the success of the GG1.
Absolutely correct: The total load probably is about the same but the load distribution is quite different. The addition of the many commuter trains at NYP, PHL, and especially WASH has caused the loads to be more concentrated. The loss of freight motors on other portions of the electric distribution lowered the demand there. Use of HEP, higher speed and higher acceleration rates has helped lead to this concentration. To Amtrak's credit it has used regular funds and now ARRA funds to upgrade the distribution system. The few brownouts that occurred last year showed the necessity of these upgrades. For any system to last 75 - 70 yrs this well is a monument to great engineering.
There's a story (audio file only) where a GG-1 engineer timed his engine running light to about 167 mph before the crew became nervous about the tracking.
I wondered how he timed it.
aegrotatio There's a story (audio file only) where a GG-1 engineer timed his engine running light to about 167 mph before the crew became nervous about the tracking. I wondered how he timed it.
Every engineer (I think) has a Stop Watch around his neck to time the Mile Posts and confirm his Speedometer.
I still doubt the AC Traction Motors could rev that fast being limited by gearing and voltage. If, on DC Traction Motors, you lose the field, in theory, Torque goes to "0" and speed goes to "infinity".
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