Hi, I already got advise for a summer train trip, and coming back for seconds.
Does anyone have a suggestion of a good gateway vacation spot along the winter routes of Empire Builder or Chicago/SF/LA train (forgot the name)? I was thinking something along the lines of going from Chicago on EB and getting off in Glacier Park, staying there for a couple of days - see the park, country, ski etc. Then hopping on EB again and going to Portland or Seattle and staying there for a while. Maybe even take a little trip to Canada from there, also on the train? Another idea is going from Chicago on Super Chief (?) and stopping at Denver. I don't really even know were to begin, so any suggestions would be appreciated.
I don't mind a two day trip on Empire Builder all the way to Seattle, but it seems that not getting off and seeing National Park for ourselves is a bit of a waste.
Thanks all!
I believe that a good starting point would be Amtrak's website www.amtrak.com Once you have figured out how to navigate the site, you can get a lot of information.
You can also call Amtrak's toll-free number 1-800-872-7245. Once Julie gives you an opportunity to say something, you can say "Agent," and after she makes sure that you want to talk to a live person, she will direct your call to a live person, and you can request a system timetable.
Johnny
If you like to cross country ski, you can't do better than taking the Empire Builder to the Izaak Walton Inn in Essex, Montana (www.izaakwaltoninn.com). In addition to being the quintessential railfan location in America, it has miles of cross country ski trails, and if you want to explore beyond there, they will also rent you car, though road access around and in Glacier National Park is limited during the winter.
Don't expect your cell phone to work or for there to be televisions in your room there, however. The Izaak Walton, though very comfortable, is for those wishing to get away from it all, and in the winter, it's all the more that way.
Mark Meyer
VerMontanan, that's exactly what I was looking for - a gateway place with beautiful views and country ski. Thanks for the advise, I'll check that place out. You say that cell phones won't work there, is it really that isolated? Also what months can I expect a ski (snow) season there? And what to expect from that place in the summer?
Well, it's not THAT isolated. It's along US Highway 2, but there are lots of times in the winter when it's closed or it's something you wouldn't want to drive. Essex is about 50 miles from Whitefish and 75 miles from Cut Bank, the two towns on either side of it with a McDonald's if that gives you some idea.
Their cross country ski season runs from about Thanksgiving to early April. In the summer, it's still a beautiful place to visit, and during Glacier Park season (Memorial Day to Labor Day), the classic red buses (Jammers) stop at the inn, so if you don't have a car, you can still take a tour of the park, though these trips can run up to $90 for an all-day trip.
The hotel has a full service restaurant and bar, though the bar isn't staffed except during the busiest times of year. The BNSF main line runs right in front of the hotel, which was built in 1939 originally to house railroad crews. Traffic has been running about 30 trains per day, so there's plenty of action. The Izaak Walton even has cabins and refurbished cabooses to stay in, and in September they got a gutted F45 locomotive in Great Northern Big Sky Blue colors that they're also making into lodging, so it really is the ultimate railfan location, plus it is right across the Middle Fork of the Flathead River from Glacier National Park, which celebrates its 100th birthday in 2010.
Some people think the Inn is a bit pricey, but they still have lots of "off season" when not a lot of people are staying there. If you can go in the shoulder season and you want piece and quiet (except for the trains going by), the Izaak Walton Inn is for you.
Just to correct a detail or 2, if you want to go from Chicago to Denver, you'll want to be on the California Zephyr. If you stay on that train and go to the west coast, you'll end up in the San Francisco Bay area (Emeryville, CA to be exact). If you want to go to Los Angeles, take the Southwest Chief from Chicago. You won't go thru Denver, though. You'll see a lot more mountains when riding the CZ. The Zephyr will get you more mountain scenery than the Empire Builder will. The CZ will get you to some ski resorts also; Winter Park (Frazier), Aspen (Glenwood Springs), and resorts near Salt Lake City, too (can't recall exact resort names there; sorry).
Bill
Sorry to tell you, but Glacier National Park is CLOSED in the winter. Even the East Glacier Park Amtrak station closes, re-activating the Browning, MT station for the winter. The Belton (West Glacier) station remains open, but then what do you do? Essex (Isaac Walton Inn) is open year-round, as a flag stop. If you are into cross-country ("Freak") skiing, that's the place to go. I don't consider their rates outrageous. Whitefish, to the west, has a large downhill (alpine) ski area, called, now, Whitefish! It was called "The Big Mountain", but that got confused with "Big Sky" in the way-southern part of the state. Don't even think of driving, over Maria's Pass (US 2) in the winter! Our snows are very unpredictable and, usually, very heavy. I only live about 70-miles east of the pass and drive to Alberta to ski. 4WD is not the answer for Maria's Pass, it only gets you in more trouble! Whitefish used to have 'ski-train' cars attached to the "Empire Builder". They were dropped in Whitefish and picked up a few days later. Haven't had that service in a couple of years. Summer is summer. Just don't let the bears eat you, especially if you have some 36" lake trout (no limit! They are considered invasive species!) in your posession!
#1 thingie to remember: carry a passport! Even though you may not intend to go to Canada, you never know. Your train might get diverted over the "Crowsnest Pass", on the CPR, if you are very lucky! Travel in Canada, on VIA, is extremely expensive!!! The "Canadian" only runs tri-weekly. There are, now, two Amtrak "Talgos" serving Vancouver, BC. Have fun!
BNSFwatcherSorry to tell you, but Glacier National Park is CLOSED in the winter.
Just so everyone doesn't get the wrong impression because there are many ways to experience Glacier. This from the official National Park Service website for Glacier at:
"Glacier National Park is open every day of the year. Winter weather however, tends to dictate when most visitor facilities open. Generally from late May to early September, facilities are open to welcome the flush of summer visitors.
Many people enjoy the 'off-seasons' as a time when the park is a bit quieter. Late September and October can be spectacular, but visitors will need to be more self relient, as facilities are closing down for the season. Winter provides a carpet of snow that makes for some good cross-country skiing opportunities. Spring tends to arrive late and last a very brief time, but can provide an interesting and quiet experience."
Don't hope for an Amtrak detour via Crowsnest. When an avalanche, derailment, or other blockage hits around the Marias Pass area, they'll bus you through as long as US 2 is open. Detours via MRL are very rare, if at all.
Verizon cell service gets pretty iffy right around the Izaak Walton due to the depth of the canyon and no tower being in direct line of sight, but you will get occasional service east and west of there with a good phone plugged into a rooftop antenna.
Your ability to drive over Marias Pass in winter depends on weather and road conditions, the vehicle you're using, and your own skill and prior experience with winter driving. Avalanche danger is very real, hence the snowsheds. There are some spots where avalanches have rolled right across the top of a shed or an unprotected stretch of railroad and landed on US 2. The sheds are clearly visible from the highway. USGS topos and the DeLorme atlas show the sheds pretty accurately; just know that the easternmost shed which these two resources depict between Essex and Blacktail, Shed 4C, was burned down in the 1970s and is now just a concrete retaining wall with slide detector fencing.
You mentioned Seattle or Portland. Both have local transit service (much of it free within downtown) that can pick you up right from the Amtrak station and bring you to various parts of those cities where there are restaurants, motels, tourist attractions, etc. Of course, this is something you should only do if traveling light, with a small backpack and/or shoulder bag, not big luggage. We have found Portland to be the easiest to access, walking right out to the front of Union Station, catching a Tri-Met shuttle to the city center, and from there taking the city streetcars and/or MAX light rail just about anywhere we need to go. East from downtown, MAX takes you across the river to several motels along MLK Blvd, with fast food and nicer restaurants a block or less from the track. West from downtown, MAX enters the twin-bore Robertson Tunnel, a neat ride in itself, with a deep underground station and high-speed elevator bringing you up to the Portland Zoo, Japanese gardens, etc. I don't know whether the zoo's steam train operates in winter (they also have diesel replicas), but it's an impressive ride on steep grades along twisting hillsides no matter what's powering it. (Busier days have two trains running.) I haven't kept up on their operations lately, so can't say for sure what their status is. If it's not flat out pouring rain, most of the zoo animals should be a bit more active in winter than they are during the hot sunny days of summer.
"As long as US 2 is open" are the operative words. I have seen Amtrak detours in Shelby, via Great Falls and Helena (BN/BNSF) to the MRL. I wouldn't relish riding backwards, like on the old "Three Rivers", but it is not a big factor in a sleeper. The line from Great Falls to Helena is closed, now for a number of years, due to lack of business and washouts. Backtracking to Laurel is way too far. Don't think we'll see that again, for a while, unless Warren B. has a house down that way. The UP/CP/BNSF bypass, Sandpoint-Eastport/Kingsgate-Lethbridge-Coutts/Sweetgrass-Shelby is viable, but an extreme long-shot. The track is good, as the CP "Heritage Fleet" and huge 'Canpotex' trains traverse it. The scenery is awesome, if you don't look for mobile homes parked in the BC woods! Amtrak, unfortunately, is very timid when operating in inclement weather! Mention "Hurricane" and they shut down. Say "Avalanche" and they panic!!! Say "Snow" and they get very uneasy! Rain = mild heart attack! Wimps!!!
I would not recommend touring Glacier National Park when it is "closed". No services, and the bears don't, for some reason, read the signs. The MTANG might, just might, send a UH-1N to extract you, but that is as unpredictable as the weather. If you are over 65 y-o-a, get a NPS "Lifetime" pass for $10. Good anywhere, unless you lose it (as I did!). No free replacement!
If you can't live without your cell phone, stay home! If one is traveling on the train, Portland seems the better deal (no sales tax). If driving, you can't pump your own gas in OR, just like NJ. Rather silly "make-work" stuff, methinks.
Have fun! Bill -- wdh@mcn.net
Bruce KellyJapanese gardens
Quite close to the Portland Union Station is the Suzhou Garden, an authentic replica of a Chinese scholar's garden.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Since I will be traveling by train, driving in the snow is not an issue :) I'm more worried about whether staying in the Izaak Inn surrounded by forest and no way to tour Park will be fun. I assume I can rent ski there? Is it safe to scout the trails there, I think I've read that they keep them accessible on regular bases. I guess I need to call the Izaak Inn to find more info on this. Hopefully they don't oversell it. I'm thinking about going there at the end of January.
California Zephyr was the train I was thinking of to go to Denver. On Amtrak it sounds like it would be easy to get to SF from the CZ final stop at Emeryville. As far as packing, we will have full size suitcases for a week of travel - but I think we should be fine.
Thanks all for the advise, you guys came through once again!
Essex, MT doesn't service checked baggage, being a "Flag Stop". There are ways around that, even though you can, usually, carry on three bags-per-person on the trains. Diaper bags and laptops get a bye. I go to New York 'bout every winter. I book to Croton-Harmon (CRT), which has no Amtrak baggage service, not even an agent! If I have extra baggage, I send it a day-or-two ahead to Albany-Rensselaer (ALB) and pick it up there, schlepping it to CRT. No charge for the baggage going to ALB. ALB is a crew-change point, and a make-up/break-up point for the NYP and BOS sections of the "Lake Shore Limited". Plenty of "dwell" time.
Coming west, on the "Empire Builder", Havre, MT is a re-fuelling point. Check excess baggage to HAV and re-claim it there. It is only a short 170 miles to Essex. Short, in Montana, that is!
Don't buy any "Bear Spray"! They have gotten innured to it and think it is "Chanel #5", or some sort of sex attractant!
Do take some snowmobile lessons. I think you can rent them in Essex. That's the way to go, especially uphill. Bears don't run up the mountains very well. Go with a local! Very much safer!
Glenwood Springs, Colo. via Amtrak nos. 5 & 6 (California Zephyr).
Nos. 5 and 6 are scheduled to stop at Glenwood Springs during daylight hours. Within walking distance of the depot are the Hotel Denver, the Hotel Colorado, and the Glenwood Hot Springs Lodge & Pool. The pool is an outdoor one open year around. It's naturally heated; and if you've never been swimming in very warm water with snowflakes falling on your head, you've missed a fun experience.
Many of the best restaurants in town are within walking distance of these hotels. The city has a nice downtown shopping district as well. It's a nice place to stop and visit even without an automobile at your disposal.
Check out the new "Ski Train" to Winter Park. Cool deal on a season pass! If you go to Vail, be sure to wear your body armor! Me, I wish there was a train to "Ski Cooper" in Leadville. That's a neat (and cheap) area. Very few "Yuppies"!
Bill, a PSPA Ski Patrolman
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