Why not? Why no regular Amtrak service to Galena, just like the Illinois Central of days of yore? It appears it would be an easy trip, at least from my perspective. So really, why can't Amtrak smarten up a bit and add a cool service to Galena?
classicalman114regular Amtrak service to Galena, just like the Illinois Central of days of yore?
I believe that a study has been made that may do just that. The final routing seems to be in dispute.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I believe the routing dispute is the Chicago-Rockford section of the run (UP or CN?) and just where the station stop will be in Rockford. West of Rockford, there is no choice to be made -- it is the CN track through Freeport, Warren, Scales Mound and Galena to Dubuque.
Dakguy201West of Rockford, there is no choice to be made -- it is the CN track through Freeport, Warren, Scales Mound and Galena to Dubuque.
That's good news. When will service begin?
Here is (I hope) a link to a news story on the Dubuque-Chicago proposal. <http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/couriernews/news/1784677,Amtrak-Genoa-South-Elgin-route-OKd_el092209.article>
These are summary comments I posted to the CHICAGOTRANSIT group.
"This is total doo-doo, and probably mixed with politics. I hate railfans who want to bring back the good ol' days, forgetting that was why the passenger train almost became extinct in the US.Absolutely no transit coordination with the proposed route.Virtually all line maintenance costs for passenger service on the CN east of the EJ&E must be assumed.The all-CN route must cross the BRC at Hawthorn and CSX/NS in addition to the former EJ&E, and will be subject to more delays.The CN route may not cost quite as much to upgrade as for the UP; but this decision is made in a vacuum without consideration of the additional cost that will be needed for a commuter service from Rockford to Elgin and O'Hare.The idea that this will serve NIU in any substantial way is ridiculous - cheaper, all-day Metra service is only two miles farther and affords much better access to the western suburbs. No one will take the train to Northern from Rockford, and very few from Freeport or Galena will either."
I also reviewed the Amtrak study that favored the all-CN routing two years ago which I found to be seriously flawed.
People actually live in Galena? Scales Mound? Sounds like STDs, to me.
Scales Mound would serve the "Galena Territory," Illinois' version of Big Sur. Passengers bound for that area would not have to endure the slow ride and back-tracking from Galena. The CN is a veritable snake-track descending through the coulees between Scales Mound and Galena. The up-side is that US20 is not much better with third lanes for slow-moving vehicles on a succession of steep hills - then there is the long traffic back-up on weekends.
The projected annual ridership of 74,000 is not broken down by station; and Scales Mound is not even considered as a stop. The biggest anchor on the west end is Dubuque, IA, 2008 est pop 57,250, and Galena 2006 est pop only 3,396. Galena is a big tourist destination on weekends.
I might add that the all-CN ridership estimate by Amtrak was based on upgrades while the UP-Metra ridership was based on a significantly slower unimproved (10 mph between Belvidere and Rockford) timing - someone wasn't playing fair.
A good number of posts refer to bringing back a train rather than the opportunity to piece together a route that would meet the want for service. The former is the reason train enthusiasts are dismissed as being not credible advocates.
The railfan part of me would like to see Galena as a stop on a Chicago/ Minneapolis St Paul Amtrak service, I think that Metra could be given authority to serve Rockford, Freeport, Galena and East Dubuque Illinois and Dubuque Iowa ( just like it provides service to Kenosha Wisconsin ). They should also expand their service to DeKalb and maybe Rochelle.Galena is the top tourist attraction in Illinois after Chicago and I would like to see another way to get there besides US 20. Even though US 20 has been fixed up between Freeport and Galena it remains both a very pretty and extremely dangerous road. For many years US 20 between Freeport and Galena was considered the most dangerous highway in America. The CN trackage would also be a nice rail trip in an Amtrak sightseer car.Please, no half baked ideas like an RDC that you tried back in the 70's Amtrak.
I doubt that Metra could reasonably be expected to provide service beyond Rockford or De Kalb. It would require a change in state statute to extend the service beyond the current six-county service area and Rockford and De Kalb are reasonable termini for suburban service. Anything beyond that could no longer come under the heading of suburban operations.
Metra could be the contract operator for a passenger service outside the region if the price is right - they would not subsidize such a service with the region's transit funding.
The proposed new service between Chicago and Dubuque that would serve Galena could be something of a surprising hotbed as both Galena and Dubuque have done much over the last 10-15 years to make their towns big-time tourist spots. Also, the state of Iowa is looking seriously at extending that service westward on to Waterloo which is something that is very much needed for northeast Iowa.
Extending service 94 miles to Waterloo changes the game insofar as schedules and routes are concerned.
Separate trains originating in Rockford and Dubuque could make two round trips each with the earlier-arriving Rockford train turning back to Dubuque and the Dubuque train turning back to Rockford. This would more fully utilize equipment and provide four trains in each direction between Rockford and Chicago.
I project that a Waterloo departure at 6 am would arrive in Chicago at 11:32 am instead of 10:12 am from Dubuque and meet the outbound Dubuque train in single-track territory. This may be too late to protect the noon flip to Rockford and back, even if the Rockford schedule is pushed back half an hour. As it is, the competing prospect for extending and turning the train in Freeport would allow only a 20 minute layover.
Adding Waterloo also offers the possibility of a third and possibly faster train routed over the BNSF if there is sufficient demand from Iowa.
HarveyK400The all-CN route must cross the former EJ&E, and will be subject to more delays.
The former IC (now CN) passes under the former EJ&E (now CP) at Munger, so this does not pose delays.
HarveyK400Absolutely no transit coordination with the proposed route.Virtually all line maintenance costs for passenger service on the CN east of the EJ&E must be assumed.
Very true. Metra service is expected to reach Belvidere and Rockford over the former CNW (now UP) line. I would think maintenance on the line east of the EJ&E would still be born by the CN as it runs several scheduled freights daily
HarveyK400The idea that this will serve NIU in any substantial way is ridiculous - cheaper, all-day Metra service is only two miles farther and affords much better access to the western suburbs. No one will take the train to Northern from Rockford, and very few from Freeport or Galena will either.
Also sadly true. The Metra service now reaches Elburn and probably will be extended to DeKalb (NIU). Pretty clearly the route should have been UP to Rockford and beyond on the CN. But Amtrak seems to have difficulty thinking beyond old, historic routes (Blackhawk, Hawkeye, Land of Corn on the IC).
That wasn't my recollection; but the ex-IC Iowa does cross under the former EJ&E at Munger.
I thought I better check the proposed traffic changes with the CN acquisition of the EJ&E (p. ES-7 of the FEIS Executive Summary).
CG9602Well, Amtrak had service for several years after its inception, until 1981. The train was the "Black Hawk," and was a victim of the Carter Administration mandated reductions in service. I seem to recall that poor timekeeping was an issue, as was low ridership. In order to start service I have to ask what the market would be, and how this train would serve the public good. Chicago to Dubuque was a small market when the train operated, so perhaps any new service would have to extend to Waterloo, IA.
Market is the key; and I think Amtrak fudged the figures.
One part of marketing is speed. Track was in bad shape back then. The 18 miles to an obscure Elmhurst stop was carded for :37 minutes (29 mph), and 86 miles to Rockford was scheduled for 1:51 (36 mph west of Elmhurst) in 1981. The CN is in somewhat better shape today - don't want to spill any ethanol(!); but still has a lot of 115# jointed rail that the railroad would replace (and not charge the State?) for an Amtrak service.
Speed is severely limited by curvature getting in and out of the Mississippi valley winding through the coulees. With the other occasional restrictive curves, tilting trains would be quite effective.
Another factor is access. Northlake-Franklin Park, Elmhurst-Addison and Oakbrook-Yorktown, aren't much bigger as employment/business destinations today than they were back then - the first two of which were close to the Milwaukee West. However, the train stop was in a local neighborhood commercial area away from main roads that developed with the CA&E which was long-gone by then. There was very little, if any, parking and no land for expansion; and the UPW Metra station is over a mile away. What few local Pace services there are in the western suburbs may connect with Metra; but they rarely come close to the CN. There was no stop in South Elgin; and today you would need additional stops in the vicinity of the former IC stations at Cloverdale (near Stratford Square) and Swift (Glendale Heights/I-355) comparable to stops at the MDW Itasca and Hanover Park I would recommend.
A lot of traffic goes between Chicago and Rockford, population 157,272 (339,178 metro area); and it's safe to assume a train might divert a good deal of it. Freeport is a city of 26,443, Galena only 3,396, Dubuque 57,250, and Waterloo 66,662. I agree there's hope that a train would boost tourism for Galena and Dubuque, and gambling at the riverboat casino in Dubuque.
The economy is another factor. Rockford lost a lot of manufacturing jobs; and people have no one to sell their home to in order to move to a new job. This is where the commuter service comes in to reach jobs in the northwest suburbs.
2012!!! You've gotta be kidding! Well, after reading your replies about how much effort will go into planning the route, I'm not too surprised. To clarify the four possible routes, is there anyway in which you can send me a Google Earth screenshot with the routes highlighted? It is possible to accomplish that in MS Paint or Photoshop, if you can. I would be much obliged!!
HarveyK400you would need additional stops in the vicinity of the former IC stations at Cloverdale (near Stratford Square) and Swift (Glendale Heights/I-355) comparable to stops at the MDW Itasca and Hanover Park I would recommend.
Although it's now a done deal, were they actually considering Metra MDW out to Elgin and then UP to Belvidere and Rockford? That would have made a lot of sense, but then the whole process has been flawed.
HarveyK400A lot of traffic goes between Chicago and Rockford, population 157,272 (339,178 metro area); and it's safe to assume a train might divert a good deal of it. Freeport is a city of 26,443, Galena only 3,396, Dubuque 57,250, and Waterloo 66,662. I agree there's hope that a train would boost tourism for Galena and Dubuque, and gambling at the riverboat casino in Dubuque. The economy is another factor. Rockford lost a lot of manufacturing jobs; and people have no one to sell their home to in order to move to a new job. This is where the commuter service comes in to reach jobs in the northwest suburbs.
George Weber, Passenger Section Chief, ILDOT announced the preferred alternative. I'm not sure if this is a done deal - I certainly hope not. A funding authorization or appropriation may still be needed from the legislature.
The Metra-UP-CN route was Alternative 2; and Metra-ICE (former Milwaukee Road) via the Rockford Airport was Alternative 3. The latter actually went past the back side of the airport which made serving the terminal problematic.
classicalman114 2012!!! You've gotta be kidding! Well, after reading your replies about how much effort will go into planning the route, I'm not too surprised. To clarify the four possible routes, is there anyway in which you can send me a Google Earth screenshot with the routes highlighted? It is possible to accomplish that in MS Paint or Photoshop, if you can. I would be much obliged!!
Regardless of the alternative, some lead time is needed for engineering and construction of station facilities, scheduling of railroad improvements, and acquiring rolling stock.
HarveyK400Metra-ICE (former Milwaukee Road) via the Rockford Airport was Alternative 3. The latter actually went past the back side of the airport which made serving the terminal problematic.
Really silly idea. The ICE runs quite slow, lots of bad track. And behind the Rockford airport? Really silly since the airport is very underused and pretty far out of the city.
This has been hashed before, but the most "logical" route for express service between Rockford and Chicago would be a station at Alpine Rd. or Perryville Rd. on CN in southeast Rockford, CN to Genoa, connection with ICE (Milw. Rd.) there, ICE to Metra (Milw. Rd.) at Elgin, to Franklin Park (O'hare), to Chicago Union Station.
Don't know if many Chicagoans would rail it to the Galena Territory. I would think they would need a vehicle once they got there unless they stay right in Galena.
Just for grins, the former Burlington route would serve Dubuque (and Waterloo) much better. If no Waterloo, the station stop could be E. Dubuque; it shortens the trip. And if Galena is that important, a flag stop at Ferry Crossing Landing Rd. at the river a mile or so down the road from there?
Maybe BNSF could get some more double track for its route.
I continue to think that most of the potential railriders on the proposed route are to-Chicago in the morning and from-Chicago late afternoon fares.
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-map-475558-map_of_galena_il-i
schlimm In 1964 the IC time was 2 1/2 hrs. to Rockford, 3 hrs. 16 min. to Galena.
My error!! In 1964 the Land O' Corn's time to Rockford (milepost 85.5) was 1 1/2 hrs. which included a 45 or 50 mph speed limit from Central Station to Broadview, 13.3 miles, and one positive stop and one flag stop. Average speed: 57 mph, a heck of a lot better than current proposals.
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