Greetings all. First post ever on the Trains forums. Give this a crack and see what thought I provoke.
My wife and I were taking the Lake Shore Limited round trip from Cleveland, Ohio to Boston's South Station.
We left Cleveland at 5:20 am Saturday morning. Due to high travel, from Cleveland to Albany,NY; Wife and I had to sit across from each other on one of the Amcoaches.The ride on Amtrak was great. Fairly smooth. Got to meet a lot of people. Their was a church group from Illinois(teens mostly and a few adults) going to Martha's Vineyard to help clean up the beaches.Wife sat next to Mike, a dad on his way to Albany to meet his daughter. I sat next to Tom, a businessman and railfan from Burlington, Iowa.I got to talk several rail fans. Actually to start, talked to Cliff Shepard, an Amtrak Conductor on the Lake Shore. He's from Toledo and works the overnight runs both East Bound and West Bound.Talking to so many people in between napping made for a great ride.We got slowed down in the Berkshires due to minor switch problems. A frieght train on one siding waiting, an westbound Lake Shore also..but the engineer made up time and got into Boston 30 minutes before actual arrival time.
The ride back; frustrating but pleasant. the Amtrak Conductor, Asst. Conductors and Customer Service folks were very attentive. One gentleman in the middle of the night kept yapping on his cell. Antonio, aka Tony, an asst. conductor put the "talk in the lounge or hang up" smack down on the guy. He relented.......
Overall the experience was worth it. One way weekend fare under 110 bucks, weekday under 70 with AAA discount. The food was surprising good. Would ride Amtrak again; just wish Ohio had more service. EEEKKK!
Patch your thoughts wherever, however.....
I finally got to see the modern Amfleet II coaches at Train Day last month. Then I realized I already rode in them on the Metroliner II in the early 1990s before Acela took over.
Thanks for the trip report!
You must have been having a great time not to notice the condition of the track between Cleveland and at least Erie. When last rode the Lake Shore Limited in April I thought I'd be flung out of my berth and onto the floor! It was the roughest ride I've had on Amtrak in many years. One couldn't possibly sleep; rather, one prays to make it to Erie or Buffalo or wherever alive.
Speaking of food, going to breakfast is a real adventure, with a person thrown from wall to wall like a ricocheting bullet. The Lake Shore Limited can give a guy carpet burn on the shoulders just trying to walk to the diner. Every time I see a senior citizen in the diner I think about the physical effort and risks it took to get him or her there!
I love the Lake Shore Limited. I worked to re-instate it after it was dropped by Amtrak from 1972-75, and I rode it the first night it ran (when Greyhound employees picketed the train in Cleveland fearing their jobs would now be lost). This is my home train and I hope it runs for decades more. It's not the finest train Amtrak runs, but it's there. God bless the Lake Shore Limited, her crews, and all who "ride their father's magic carpet made of steel."
Have had this discussion before, but . . .
The first thing people blame for a rough ride is the track. But could rolling stock be a factor, and especially difference in truck (bogie) design?
Amfleet has the Pioneer III inside bearing truck. Don Oltmann tells us that the primary suspension on that thing is nothing more than a slab of synthetic rubber between the journal box and the truck frame. The lateral motion is simply the sideways deflection of the secondary suspension springs/air bags between the truck bolster and the car body. The longitudinal motion of the springs is restricted by those tie rods, connecting the car body to the bolster through rubber bushings.
The Pioneer III trucks is not the smoothest I have ridden -- that would have to be the truck on the French Turboliner. But the Pioneer III seems to be a simple design where there is a minimum of rubbing parts to wear, and the only thing to go bad would seem to be rubber bushings by whatever mechanism synthetic rubber dries out and cracks.
The Viewliner sleeper has a different truck, and I have "heard something . . . just, just a little bit!" that the Viewliner is rough riding.
If there is some gulf in the technology of Amtrak and the rest of the developed industrial world, Amtrak seems to prefer the type of truck where the journals slide within truck frame pedestals -- you know, the kind of truck with drop equalizers on the primary suspension and swing hangers for lateral motion. This type of truck seems a lot more complex, with a lot more wear surfaces. But for some reason, Amtrak doesn't like the home-grown Pioneer III, prefering Horizon cars to have pedestal trucks over the Comet cars with Pioneer II trucks (I have been on Comets in Boston commuter service and thought them to ride well). I guess Amtrak doesn't like the European derived truck design on the Superliner I's either, going to pedestal trucks on the Superline II's. The Superliner I's substitute radius links for the pedestal guides, and that type of trucks is an outgrowth of the research on high-speed wheel stability started in Japan and continued in England and other places.
Before someone chimes in that "railroad engineering/mechanical/maintenance people have their reasons and we (me?) are a bunch of armchair railfan engineering people", my poppa worked for GATX as a research engineer back in the day (you know, the people with the tank car fleet), and he explained that the Metroliner had rough riding qualities because the Pioneer III truck was replaced by a pedestal truck at the insistence of the Pennsylvania Railroad for some reason that seemed like "just because" to him. I know us railfans and amateurs can come up with all kinds of ideas, but one shouldn't assume that railroad people aren't falling back on tradition and on what they know and are avoiding improved designs.
So, a passenger in coach can have a pleasant ride whereas someone in a sleeper compartment can be tossed about, and maybe it is the truck and not the track?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul, this is interesting, amazing, and convincing. But I have a sincere question as a follow-up: If it's the truck and not the track, how come other parts of the journey (say, Albany to NYC, and other stretches) are much smoother? Wouldn't the quality of the ride be the same?
I was really struck by your comment that coach passengers are getting a far smoother ride than those in the sleepers, despite our paying resort hotel-prices for the privilege.
Amfleet cars are a treat when you're riding in something else. Entering the lounge from a sleeper is like going from a skate board to a surf board.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood." Daniel Burnham
Well, we sure have heard this debate before: truck design vs. track design/maintenance. Perhaps some of both, but IMO mostly rough track no matter what truck is used.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Yes, the ride between Erie and Buffalo was a bit rough. But, again overall; a good ride nevertheless.
Thank you for your work on keeping the Lake Shore Limited running. Everyone compares the route to the old 20th Century Limited; however according to old NYC timetables and schedule..the New England States Limited ran the same exact route between Chicago and Boston. (Old Boston and Albany main line).
Actually glad I didn't book a sleeper.. Coach you get to mingle more with the riders daytime, and train crew pre-dawn and night time.
GKEngineerOH We left Cleveland at 5:20 am Saturday morning. Due to high travel, from Cleveland to Albany,NY; Wife and I had to sit across from each other on one of the Amcoaches.
We left Cleveland at 5:20 am Saturday morning. Due to high travel, from Cleveland to Albany,NY; Wife and I had to sit across from each other on one of the Amcoaches.
Frequently, when I have traveled on the Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited, I have walked through the coaches early in the morning. On first glance they appear to be full. But upon looking further, I have noticed that many if not most of the passengers have sprawled across two seats, thus giving the appearance of a higher passenger load factor than would have been the case if everyone had been sitting up. I wonder if this is what you encountered.
Some coach passengers are veteran travelers. They bring along blankets and pillows. They appear to know how to make themselves comfortable.
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