Hello all ;
I've got some doubts concerning the route being used by Amtrak to go from Chicago to Indianapolis. It seems to me that former Monon now CSX route is being used between Chicago and Crawfordsville, with ex NYC from this point to Indianapolis. Is this it ?
Also what's the top speed on this corridor ? 70 mph ?
Many thanks in advance for the answers that may came
Well you are correct about the Monon and probably correct about the NYC. Can't answer the speed question however.
Mario, here is the total of the Cardinal's current route from Chicago to New York City.
25-Cardinal Chicago, IL to New York City, NY 1,154 miles Current line ownership...
The links give you maps. The New York Central listed between Monon and B&O was mostly Peoria and Eastern. The route through Indianapolis actually uses some PRR track. I, also, cannot give you any idea as to speed limits.
I got this from the Trackside Guides Forum 8-23-08.
Johnny
Years ago, before the Penn Central allowed the tracks to go kablooie, the James Whitcomb Riley ran thru Logansport, IN on its Cincinnati - Indianapolis - Chicago run. Amtrak had a devil of a time putting together any kind of route in the Seventies because so many routes were restricted to very low speeds due to immense deterioration of the ROW and tracks.
I know the current route seems very indirect but if you route through Logansport, as in the old days, it's almost as far. Chicago and Indy did not have strong main-line rail connections w/ possible exception of the Monon. The cities are (or were) in different regions of the USA (agrarian, Midlands Midwest vs. Rustbelt) and as we know, most of the rail development in the USA was E-W, not N-S. It wasn't until I-65 was completed ca,.1970 that there was a genuine southeast-northwest oriented route, and even then it only went as far north and west as the eastern side of Gary, IN. Trucks loved it, I'm sure, as they no longer had to use U.S. 52 or U.S. 41 (along which the cropdusting sequence in North by Northwest was filmed). I'm not sure if through-routed freight is handled any more directly than the Amtrak--I'm hoping there are people here who will know. - a.s.
The Monon ran some First Class Passenger trains from Indy to Chi-Town back in the day. The current Cardinal follows part of that route from Monon, IN into ILL.
Al, are you forgetting the Big Four (Chicago, Cincinatti, Cleveland and St Louis)? Their lines formed an "X" with Indy at the intersection, so there was a lot of freight moving through that corridor at one time.
You started talking about Cincinatti-Chicago and the C&O had a direct route via Peru, IN that at one time hosted the Cardinal, too.
Thanks for the corrections and the extra info. Did Big Four trackage belong mostly to Penn Central? Because that company started neglecting its track as soon as its formation (2/1968), if Stuart Saunders' president at the prior PRR hadn't already started the erosion.
The Big Four was a part of the NYC System and PC and eventually Conrail. Their shops in Beach Grove are what Amtrak uses today. I can't say for sure when they started to decline.
Greetings. Last month my wife and I took the Cardinal to Charlottsville Va. (Bussed to Savannah Ga.). The track bettween Dyer, In. and Lafeyette, In. in my opinion, was some of the worst i've ever experienced. Most of it single track. Every passenger was having a very hard time going from the sleeper to the diner. The porter did a great job staying upright. I don't know the speed we were going, but 10 mph might have been recomended. After Indianapolis, it was smooth sailing. All together, great trip.
The report of worst track between Dyer, IN and Crawfordsville, IN is disheartening.
As I recall, some of this segment has 115# cwr which would be good for 79mph and better with adequate maintenance. CSX may limit speed to 70 mph on jointed rail.
Speed is not restricted by curvature over most of the line; and there is a long tangent of 22 miles between Lowell and Rensselaer. There are a few 2-degree curves including those at Lowell and St John; but most sharper curves are around Lafayette and Crawfordsville and at connections between lines at Monon, Crawfordsville, and Cleremont. Tilt trains would mitigate speed reductions for curve restrictions.
The former Monon lines have abs which would allow 79 mph. The relay-based wayside signals are not as reliable as modern solid-state signaling. Positive train control would afford a less costly replacement alternative and permit removal of abs and a significant mantenance cost.
The single track is more than adequate, if not viable, with the current level of traffic. Did you pass any other train between Dyer and Crawfordsville other than through Lafayette?
Amtrak uses the former B&O Springfield line from Crawfordsville to Clermont outside Indianapolis. Here it connects with the former PRR Panhandle from Logansport to Lynnhurst and continues to Indianapolis Union Station.
The Chicago - Indianapolis route could be upgraded for 110 mph service with trains branching to Cincinnati and Louisville. Regional services also might be provided between Lafayette and Seymour, and between Muncie and Terre Haute through Indianapolis.
As for the route out of Chicago, one alternative would be to share the existing former IC Canadian National from Canal St, Chicago to the Grand Trunk connection at Harvey used by Amtrak for service to Carbondale and New Orleans. This would be no worse than using the UP through Yard Center, and could be improved with a new direct connection from Union Station to the St Charles Air Line to reach the CN. These alternatives depend on continued use of the CN lakefront line. The CN offers opportunities for service to McCormick Place and 57th St, and connections to Metra Electric and South Shore trains.
I came back from Washington, DC on the Cardinal once in the early 80's when it ran on the C&O through Richmond, Muncie, and Peru. I usually love taking a train; but that was one tedious trip without a lounge car. I also came back from Ocala, FL on the Floridian via Bloomington, IN; but I never rode the Cardinal to Indianapolis despite going on business numerous times from Highland, IN.
I take Cardinal/Hoosier State several times a month to see family. I make a point to chat with the train crew on the way down and they usually have a lot to say. Generally, the Cardinal/Hoosier State leaves Chicago at 5:45 pm CST and arrives 12:00 - 12:45 am EST, so 5 hours minimum (the scheduled time is 11:50 pm EST). The ride from Union Station to near Dyer is very smooth. As noted in Deggesty's entry above, this track is owned by a mix of railroads, but seems to be well cared for. The train crew that I talked with most recently said that the NS portion of the track is CWR for sure. Once you hit Dyer, the ride becomes very, VERY rough, something the crew attributed to poor CSX maintenance and jointed rail. The AMTRAK crews I have chatted with have some level of frustration with CSX. The last time I took the train down to Indy, we lost almost 40 minutes of time due to slow orders, freight interference, bad signals and waiting for warrants. The track from Union Station to Crawfordsville is CTC, but the track from Crawfordsville to Clermont is dark territory and controlled by track warrants.
My family lives in Brownsburg, through which this line passes. Its kind of ironic that my family lives within sight of the line in Brownsburg, but they have to go to downtown to pick me up. I say that because recently we have noticed approximately 7 to 10 trains passing through Brownsburg every day. From what I know, the line between Clermont and Crawfordsville is not CSX's main north/south line. Generally, the freights consist of 3 to 6 locomotives and a manifest of grain, tank cars, and some gondolas hauling scrap, sand or rock. We have never seen semi-trailers or containers on this line.
Hard to damage grain, scrap, sand , or rock. On the other hand merchandise in trailers.............
Amtrak uses former P&E (NYC) line from Crawfordsville to Clermont. This line is abandoned west of C-ville.Speed is 59 mph or less. Old Monon route is used north of C-ville to a little north of Dyer. Large parts of this are jointed rail, some with 79 mph speed, some restricted to 60 (do not remember MP numbers). Between Lafayette and C-ville speed is 79 once south of Wea Creek. Curve north of C-ville is 75 mph limit. The last few semaphore signals on the Monon are between Linden and Romney, approx. MP 131-135. I live just a few miles west of this area, and do some farming along the track. This route has more cites with greater population than any other Indy-Chicago route, and has gained riders over the past few years. Too bad it is so slow into Chicago.
PR
My mistake, Crawfordsville - Clermont is the former P&E as PR wrote.
iowahsrail Once you hit Dyer, the ride becomes very, VERY rough, something the crew attributed to poor CSX maintenance and jointed rail.
Once you hit Dyer, the ride becomes very, VERY rough, something the crew attributed to poor CSX maintenance and jointed rail.
The railroad is maintained well for what it is, a meduim duty branch line.
An "expensive model collector"
I don`t recall the date, but before Amtrak started the track crews were to have track cleared for 70 mph thru Taylor Station, South Raub Corwin and Linden. By the way the timetable for 4/7/1856 shows Crawfordsville at MP169 and Corwin (Romney) at 183 with New Albany at 0 miles.
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