alphas wrote: Samantha, the Austin airport is my favorite. Bright and new, easy to get to, car rentals just a walk across the street, good and varried food, short lines at the ticket counter and security, friendly employees, short waits for luggage, and a good terminal layout. I fly it about 4 times a year. Its only 6 hours from when I leave my house, fly United commuter from State College to Washington Dullas, about a 1 1/2 layover in Dullas, and United non-stop to Austin.
Samantha, the Austin airport is my favorite. Bright and new, easy to get to, car rentals just a walk across the street, good and varried food, short lines at the ticket counter and security, friendly employees, short waits for luggage, and a good terminal layout. I fly it about 4 times a year. Its only 6 hours from when I leave my house, fly United commuter from State College to Washington Dullas, about a 1 1/2 layover in Dullas, and United non-stop to Austin.
just as my corporate anecdote skews towards peak usage, your inidividual anecdote skews towards off peak usage. Not everyone can use Austin and State College airporst with their quick in and out times. Some must use congested airports such as Washington Dulles.
The 2 hour international, 90 minute domestic rule is primaryily to allow for security backups, at least that's what the limousine company I worked for told us. For your layover at Dulles did you have to go through an additional security check? My hometown, Philadelphia, has security check at each terminal, so if your connecting planes are terminal C gate A and L, maybe more than 1000 feet apart, you don't need to go through security. On the other hand if you're connecting from terminal C gate A to terminal D gate A, maybe less than 500 feet apart, you do have to go through security.
Other airports have different arrangements. Tampa for example has 2 centralized security locations, once through them you have unfettered access to half the gates in the entire airport. So terminal A, sub-terminal A, gate A to terminal A, sub-terminal H gate L could be a longer distance with no security check than terminal A, sub-terminal A gate A to terminal B, sub-terminal A, gate A with a security check.
You didn't compare Austin to State College air vs train. I've done it a couple of times because I'm a foamer. Amtrak Eagle overnight to Chicago, change to the old Broadway Limited, overnight to Philly. I'm assuming the closest station to State College would be Lewistown, but I think I remember some schedule notes about Harrisburg to State College bus connection.
Patrick Boylan
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Just a comment from the peanut gallery...
If somebody could move Bergstrom's convenience to my home town, I'd love it! Likewise, if Amtrak still ran on the local Class 1 I would probably use it, at least traveling in a southwesterly direction. However, my local airline facility is McCarran (which is, IIRC, about the third-busiest airport on the planet) and the public ground transportation alternative is a bus ride through some of the most desolate countryside this side of Mars.
So, what do I choose? My very own (fully paid for) Toyota, with which I can load up and leave in less time than it would take me to get from short-term parking to the terminal building at McCarran. Since I already have my own vehicle, I don't have to rent one or take a taxi when I reach my destination. I am not a business traveler, so driving gives me the option to stop off and enjoy the scenery or the local culture - an option not available to the Amtrak passenger. Likewise, I get a chance to see the scenery close-up. I have seen clouds. They don't impress me.
Make no mistake. I love to ride trains - when they are conveniently scheduled, operate between clean, well-maintained stations and run on time. Unfortunately, here in the Dessicated Desert the answer is none of the above.
Chuck
gardendance wrote: alphas wrote: You didn't compare Austin to State College air vs train. I've done it a couple of times because I'm a foamer. Amtrak Eagle overnight to Chicago, change to the old Broadway Limited, overnight to Philly. I'm assuming the closest station to State College would be Lewistown, but I think I remember some schedule notes about Harrisburg to State College bus connection.
alphas wrote:
Assuming a person is traveling from Austin to State College on Wednesday, August 13th, which should give him or her the best fare (midweek), this is what the fly vs. train options would look like.
The quickest flight from Austin to the State College takes 6 hours and 54 minutes. It costs $498. The cheapest flight takes 7 hours and 58 minutes and costs $455. Most of the options require two plane changes; however, several one change of plane options are available, but the fare jumps to $615.
The quickest all surface option using Amtrak whenever possible would include the Texas Eagle from Austin to Chicago, the Capitol Limited from Chicago to Pittsburgh, and Greyhound from Pittsburgh to State College.
If our traveler opts for coach class, the fare would be $172 from Austin to Pittsburgh, plus $24 for the bus from Pittsburgh to State College, for a total transportation outlay of $196. If our train traveler eats in the dinning car and does not blow his budget in the lounge car, he is looking at another $40 to $80 for meals and libations. Let's split the difference and call it $60. This brings the tab for transportation and meals to $256 or $199 less than the cost of flying.
The Texas Eagle departs Austin at 9:31 a.m. and arrives in Chicago at 2:14 p.m. the next day, if it is on time, which in the case of the Eagle is a big if. It's on time arrival record into Chicago is a blazing 4.1 per cent over the last 12 months. The Capitol Limited departs Chicago at 7:05 p.m. on August 14th and arrives at Pittsburgh at 5:30 a.m. on August 15th. The dog (Greyhound) departs Pittsburgh at 8:45 the same day and arrives in State College at 1:45 p.m. The total travel time would be 52 hours and 44 minutes.
If our traveler does not want to sit up for two nights in a coach, he could opt for a roomette. The fare, which includes meals, would be $496, plus $24 for the bus from Pittsburgh to State College. The total for the sleeper option would be $520 plus the cost of breakfast upon arrival into Pittsburgh. The dinning car on the Capitol does not open until 6:30 a.m. If we add $5 for breakfast, the total outlay for this option is $525 or $70 more than flying.
If time is not a factor, taking the train and bus could be a reasonable option. But for most people time is a factor. And this is why the Texas Eagle has a low average passenger load factor south of St. Louis. Very few people in Texas believe that it is a serious option.
Don't forget to back out the cost of meals that would have been eaten at home instead of on the train against the cost of the train.
And add in the cost of a hotel in State College for the "fly" scenario since you will be arriving the night before (assuming you didn't need to be in State College before mid-day)
How about a flight to Pittsburgh or Philly and a rent-a-car? Might be cheapest over all. And gives you wheels (so you can go visit the Horseshoe curve in Altoona )
This is all just nibbling around the edges. Other than a railfan, who would consider the train for such a trip?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd wrote:SNIPThis is all just nibbling around the edges. Other than a railfan, who would consider the train for such a trip?
Ditto, absolutely!
In the USA, perhaps the only viable rail alternative to air is certain places and itineraries within the NE corridor, namely the previously mentioned Acela services. The technology exists for rail to compete head to head with airplanes, but the investment is substantial and the opponents are potent.
oltmannd wrote: Don't forget to back out the cost of meals that would have been eaten at home instead of on the train against the cost of the train.And add in the cost of a hotel in State College for the "fly" scenario since you will be arriving the night before (assuming you didn't need to be in State College before mid-day)How about a flight to Pittsburgh or Philly and a rent-a-car? Might be cheapest over all. And gives you wheels (so you can go visit the Horseshoe curve in Altoona )This is all just nibbling around the edges. Other than a railfan, who would consider the train for such a trip?
It is difficult to estimate how much the meals at home would cost compared to meals eaten on the train or in the airport. That is why I came up with a range and spit the difference, assuming a net albeit indeterminate credit for meals taken at home. I also assumed that the meals eaten on Amtrak, in the case of the coach passenger, where selected from the cheaper side of the menu. Some coach passengers pack their meals and eat them at their seats or in the lounge car. It is not worth factoring the savings into the scenario. As a rule, it cost me double to eat away from home, especially if I have a glass of wine or two.
My response was in response to a question posted by alphas, who I assume lives in State College. I assumed that he was going home. Accordingly, I did not factor in a night for hotel. However, if he had a one day business meeting in Austin, he could fly in the day before, attend an all day meeting, and fly home the next day. In this scenario he would incur two nights of hotel expense. If he came on the train, which would be the reverse of the posted scenario, he would arrive in Austin at 7:00 p.m. the night before the meeting, attend the all day meeting, and depart the next morning. He would have had the same number of hotel nights, which would be two: the night before the meeting and the night after the meeting.
If he came by train, in all probability, he would be late arriving into Austin. As I mentioned, the Texas Eagle has one of the worst on-time performance records of any of Amtrak's long distance trains. Year to date it has been late into Austin, on average, by approximately 90 minutes. So he could expect to arrive about 9:30. This means that he gets to the hotel about 10:00, if he is staying downtown, or later if he is going to one of the suburban areas, such as Dell Diamond. He probably won't get to bed until after 11:00 p.m. This, plus the fact that he probably had two less than sleep tight nights on the train means that he is likely to have a tough time staying awake during the meeting.
I was comparing an all surface trip via Amtrak and bus vs. flying. Whether flying to Pittsburgh or Philadelphia is the cheapest way to go depends on whether a person needs to rent a car and, if so, for how long. If the travel is for one or two days, flying to Pittsburgh on Southwest, renting a car and driving to State College could be the cheapest and best option. Flying to Philadelphia puts one approximately 195 miles from State College, whereas Pittsburgh to State College is approximately 140 miles. Moreover, Altoona and the Horseshoe Curve can be visited on the way to State College from Pittsburgh; the curve would require a side jaunt of about five miles. On the other hand, Altoona is southwest of State College, which would lengthen the trip from Philadelphia.
I grew up in Altoona and graduated from Pennsylvania State University. My brother lives in McKeesport, and I visit him at least once a year. Usually, I fly to Pittsburgh, although on occasion I take the train. I am reasonably familiar with the options. We usually drive over to Altoona to see the house that we grew up in, visit the curve, and often times drop by the Railroader's Museum in Altoona. We also have a couple of Texas Hot Dogs in Altoona. If you get to my former hometown, don't miss out on the dogs at the Texas.
Samantha wrote: oltmannd wrote: Don't forget to back out the cost of meals that would have been eaten at home instead of on the train against the cost of the train.And add in the cost of a hotel in State College for the "fly" scenario since you will be arriving the night before (assuming you didn't need to be in State College before mid-day)How about a flight to Pittsburgh or Philly and a rent-a-car? Might be cheapest over all. And gives you wheels (so you can go visit the Horseshoe curve in Altoona )This is all just nibbling around the edges. Other than a railfan, who would consider the train for such a trip?It is difficult to estimate how much the meals at home would cost compared to meals eaten on the train or in the airport. That is why I came up with a range and spit the difference, assuming a net albeit indeterminate credit for meals taken at home. I also assumed that the meals eaten on Amtrak, in the case of the coach passenger, where selected from the cheaper side of the menu. Some coach passengers pack their meals and eat them at their seats or in the lounge car. It is not worth factoring the savings into the scenario. As a rule, it cost me double to eat away from home, especially if I have a glass of wine or two.My response was in response to a question posted by alphas, who I assume lives in State College. I assumed that he was going home. Accordingly, I did not factor in a night for hotel. However, if he had a one day business meeting in Austin, he could fly in the day before, attend an all day meeting, and fly home the next day. In this scenario he would incur two nights of hotel expense. If he came on the train, which would be the reverse of the posted scenario, he would arrive in Austin at 7:00 p.m. the night before the meeting, attend the all day meeting, and depart the next morning. He would have had the same number of hotel nights, which would be two: the night before the meeting and the night after the meeting. If he came by train, in all probability, he would be late arriving into Austin. As I mentioned, the Texas Eagle has one of the worst on-time performance records of any of Amtrak's long distance trains. Year to date it has been late into Austin, on average, by approximately 90 minutes. So he could expect to arrive about 9:30. This means that he gets to the hotel about 10:00, if he is staying downtown, or later if he is going to one of the suburban areas, such as Dell Diamond. He probably won't get to bed until after 11:00 p.m. This, plus the fact that he probably had two less than sleep tight nights on the train means that he is likely to have a tough time staying awake during the meeting. I was comparing an all surface trip via Amtrak and bus vs. flying. Whether flying to Pittsburgh or Philadelphia is the cheapest way to go depends on whether a person needs to rent a car and, if so, for how long. If the travel is for one or two days, flying to Pittsburgh on Southwest, renting a car and driving to State College could be the cheapest and best option. Flying to Philadelphia puts one approximately 195 miles from State College, whereas Pittsburgh to State College is approximately 140 miles. Moreover, Altoona and the Horseshoe Curve can be visited on the way to State College from Pittsburgh; the curve would require a side jaunt of about five miles. On the other hand, Altoona is southwest of State College, which would lengthen the trip from Philadelphia.I grew up in Altoona and graduated from Pennsylvania State University. My brother lives in McKeesport, and I visit him at least once a year. Usually, I fly to Pittsburgh, although on occasion I take the train. I am reasonably familiar with the options. We usually drive over to Altoona to see the house that we grew up in, visit the curve, and often times drop by the Railroader's Museum in Altoona. We also have a couple of Texas Hot Dogs in Altoona. If you get to my former hometown, don't miss out on the dogs at the Texas.
I lived in Duncansville for 4 months in 1978 when a Conrail Mech. Dept. trainee. Two months in Juniata, two months in Sam Rea. Spent lots and lots of time there in the 80s and early 90s. Haven't been back there in the last 15 years. Maybe a vacation side trip this summer, tho'.
-Morgan
Uni "TED" is history today. How long before we start seeing smaller airports closing, Fox News just said it won't be long. . .
Will the Railroads be able to capitalize on the opportunity? Railroad stocks have been strong for some time.
Joe
joe-daddy wrote: Uni "TED" is history today. How long before we start seeing smaller airports closing, Fox News just said it won't be long. . .Will the Railroads be able to capitalize on the opportunity? Railroad stocks have been strong for some time.Joe
Many of the small airports in question serve cities that haven't had rail passenger service since long before Amtrak. I don't think that all of the feeder routes operated by the regional carriers will be discontinued but the amount of service will shrink considerably.
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