Ohio Amtrak corridor - long overdue

[highgreen]

Great news in today's Trains' online Newswire that OH Gov. Ted Strickland wants Amtrak to evaluate possible corridor service linking Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati. Market potential? Just drive traffic-clogged I-71 sometime! Do it right, with car rentals and intermodal transit connections at each station, and both downtown and suburban stations. Cleveland could have an online airport stop, too, a la Milwaukee. Am I right that Amtrak has never offered "3-C" corridor service? And that it ended with the demise of New York Central and Pennsy passenger trains?

[alphas]

Unless Ohio is willing to make a major financial contribution, its going to be very tough to get Amtrak to do anything.   BTW, I think you'd find that traffic from Cleveland to/from Columbus and Columbus to/from Cincinnati would be most prevalent. 

[CG9602]

Let me put it succinctly: No bucks $$$, no Buck Rogers. Until one reads about a 403-b line item in the budget, then there will be no trains. A "study" doe not mean that there are any trains on the horizon. Also what are the state's residents' attitudes towards public transport? Last I heard, Ohio did not have the proclivities of, say, Portland, OR regarding public transport.

[Dakguy201]

When a government doesn't really want to pay to do something, many times the best course is to appoint some organization to "study" it.  It is a way to get the pro-whatever activity advocates off your back without actually doing anything.  Montana got a similiar idea written into law for a more ambitious (and probably even less state affordable) route. 

[oltmannd]

When a government doesn't really want to pay to do something, many times the best course is to appoint some organization to "study" it.  It is a way to get the pro-whatever activity advocates off your back without actually doing anything.  Montana got a similiar idea written into law for a more ambitious (and probably even less state affordable) route. 

Oh, man!  That is certainly how they play the game down here in GA!  First you study it for feasability.  Then you whine about the details in that study when it comes out "pro".  Then you stall.  Then you sign up for a further, more detailed study.  Then you quibble with the details and stall some more.  Then you declare that (since all your stalling) that the original report is outdated and order an update.  Then a study of some particular alternatives, then the environ. assessment.  Then, even after all the stars are aligned and the Feds have signed up for their part, you smoke a bill thru the legis. at the 23rd hour that prohibits any already earmarked state match from being spent until you get guarantees from all the effected counties that they will pay any and all operating subsidies for 10 years - even though all you previously asked was for a comittment from them - which they gave - and then pretend that wasn't what you intended with the bill.  Meanwhile, the governor fiddles while Atlanta chokes.  And the "DOT" spews and endless stream of acronyms and concepts - HOT, BRT, outer perimeter, truck only toll lanes, private toll road only to one, by one be forced to drop every one of them when the feasibility studies come back "no".

[oltmannd]

Great news in today's Trains' online Newswire that OH Gov. Ted Strickland wants Amtrak to evaluate possible corridor service linking Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati. Market potential? Just drive traffic-clogged I-71 sometime! Do it right, with car rentals and intermodal transit connections at each station, and both downtown and suburban stations. Cleveland could have an online airport stop, too, a la Milwaukee. Am I right that Amtrak has never offered "3-C" corridor service? And that it ended with the demise of New York Central and Pennsy passenger trains?

You are correct. Amtrak never operated the CCC corridor.  They hit all three cities, but only with east-west service.  There was/is the Lake Shore and Capitol Ltd. in the north, the Nat'l limited in the middle and the Shenendoah and Cardinal in the south.

They've been talking about it since I lived in Columbus in 1978.  They even built a train platfrom in the Columbus Conv. Center to accomodate the trains.

[Prairietype]

What was the silver bullet that resulted in the Heartland Flyer?; a train in a region where know one lives, a train that goes nowhere, an expense for two states where no one works together.

[oltmannd]

What was the silver bullet that resulted in the Heartland Flyer?; a train in a region where know one lives, a train that goes nowhere, an expense for two states where no one works together.

It is just the"Harley's Hornet" of the far midwest, only the Senator this time is Kay Bailey Hutchison.

[Prairietype]

What was the silver bullet that resulted in the Heartland Flyer?; a train in a region where know one lives, a train that goes nowhere, an expense for two states where no one works together.

It is just the"Harley's Hornet" of the far midwest, only the Senator this time is Kay Bailey Hutchison.

So what you're saying is, get a national politician on your project, have the right party (or not) in power, line up a bunch of state legislators and communities, talk a good talk of s-294 and W-50-50 "Amtrak reform and improvement" and you could see the rebirth of an old line?

I hear that's what's happening in Kansas and Oklahoma this year. 

[oltmannd]

What was the silver bullet that resulted in the Heartland Flyer?; a train in a region where know one lives, a train that goes nowhere, an expense for two states where no one works together.

It is just the"Harley's Hornet" of the far midwest, only the Senator this time is Kay Bailey Hutchison.

So what you're saying is, get a national politician on your project, have the right party (or not) in power, line up a bunch of state legislators and communities, talk a good talk of s-294 and W-50-50 "Amtrak reform and improvement" and you could see the rebirth of an old line?

I hear that's what's happening in Kansas and Oklahoma this year. 

I think all you really need is the right guy on the right committee.  You don't have to talk, get allies, etc.  You just have to be "the guy".

[choochoobuff]

Ohio is in a mode of heavy duty change economically.  The manufacturing base is leaving and hi tech is becoming more of the norm.  The idea of light rail is a good one.  The idea of Amtrak running it is a bad one.  I actually live in Southwestern Ohio and I can tell you that long commutes are much more abundant than ever.  Here is the deal.  Five dollars a gallon can change a lot of minds.  Also, the attractions in both Cleveland and Cincy add a tourist twist. It is also a possibility that a large casino may be on the way to an area near Wilmington.  I am not saying it will happen, just that it has a better chance now than in the past.

[Kurn]

I will not believe it until I board a train in Cleveland and get off in Cincinnati!

[Ham Radio]

I'd love the option to train through Ohio, but unless the Buckeye State steps up with some serious funding I don't think you'll get Amtrak's attention. 

[al-in-chgo]

I'd love the option to train through Ohio, but unless the Buckeye State steps up with some serious funding I don't think you'll get Amtrak's attention. 

[Anonymous]

  This is the 10th such study in 25 years......Ohio spent millions on high speed rail in the 1980s

and no track was ever laid... Want to pay off a campain contributer? ASSIGHN HIM A STUDY!

[passengerfan]

If Ohio wants trains between Cleveland and Cincinnati then they will have to do as California has done. Buy there own equipment and get off there butts. We have the Surfliners between San Diego - Los Angeles - Santa Barbara. San Joaquins between Oakland/Sacramento and Bakersfield with connecting Amtrak bus service to Los Angeles and Las Vegas. And the Capitols between Sacramento and San Jose. All of these services are operated with equipment purchased by the state of California. If Ohio wants service let Ohio pay for it just as we in California have done and quit bellyacheing. 

[HarveyK400]

Formally requesting a service study by Amtrak has been done in Illinois recently for the Dubuque-Rockford-Chicago and the Quad Cities (Davenport, Rock Island, Moline & East Moline)-Chicago routes.  The latter was followed up by a study for an extension to Iowa City.  This is the current process for a state interested in starting or extending service. 

Amtrak is the presumed expert in these matters; but my own experience is that they seriously fudged the numbers for a biased result favoring the all-CN Dubuque-Rockford alternative, perhaps under political pressure.  After being called on their report's discrepancies, the Quad City and Iowa City reports offered less detail.

For what it's worth, Rockford now is pushing for a commuter service over the UP, the defamed  Rockford-Dubuque alternative, to a Metra Milwaukee West connection at Big Timber (Elgin).

Back to Ohio.  Ohio was likened to Germany, having a number of large and middle-size cities and a relatively high state population desity condusive to intercity rail passenger service.   I was shot down for the position of manager for the Ohio Rail Transportation Authority in 1977(?) by the Director of ODoT.  From experience in Illinois, I saw an opportunity to do some track and equipment rehab to get a couple trains running; ODoT wanted Battelle to study a Bullet Train - at least that was more rational than asking for a Flash Gordon monorail. 

As others have pointed out, nothing will get built without money.  Back in the 70's and possibly still, the state constitution forbad subsidizing rail service.  Without the legislation, there is no money.

Shortly after I came back from Ohio, Jolene Molitoris went in and gave ODoT what it wanted before moving on.  Now she's back; but will the people of Ohio get their trains this time?