Highball Amtrak, Signal Indication?

[hf1001]

What does this mean, besides the "highball" part, when a conductor says this to the engineer before departing a station?

[THE.RR]

Back in the GOOD OLD DAYS (1870 / 1880 or there abouts), some eastern roads used a ball (or lantern at night) on a flag pole type rope as a signal.  When lowered into a can and not visible the train had to stop.  When the ball was raised the train could go.  Hence  "HIGHBALL".

Your conductor is telling the engineer that the train is clear to go, no doors open, people boarding etc.  The train and station ID are so others do no get confused as to who is talking to who. 

[hf1001]

I know the history about balls used in signalling but what does Signal Idication mean. The conductors don't always say signal indication after highballing. Could this mean whenever it is time to depart the engineer has the go ahead to move while the conductor has the vestibules closed? Maybe the conductor sees that there are no more scheduled passengers to board the train so he or she doesn't have to wait for any more passengers to come.

[n012944]

It sounds to me that the conductor is telling the engineer, that is it ok to procede, following signal indication.  There is not always a signal at the platform, so train movement from the station to the next signal is goverend by the indication of the last signal that was past.

[al-in-chgo]

It sounds to me that the conductor is telling the engineer, that is it ok to procede, following signal indication.  There is not always a signal at the platform, so train movement from the station to the next signal is goverend by the indication of the last signal that was past.

 

I think so too.  "Highball's" original meaning, as we can see from the literal reference, would  communicate in the future, under electric signaling, something like "green over green" or "proceed" or "clear" in terms of how ready and open the track ahead is supposed to be.

There was also the sense in which "Highball" presumed "All Aboard," but we know in practice  that "All Aboard" can mean "better get on board" instead of, or as well as, the more literal implication of "Everyone's aboard so proceed at will." (Toot-Toot!).  I'm not sure how this practice varied from line to line, or even if there was unity within one RR co's practices, but of course regarding the raisable/disguisable white ball(s) we're talking about an era in which electric signaling is far off and NORAC-style regulations even farther.  It's not surprising therefore that "Highball" came to mean "Safe to take out and proceed normally."  After all, in the USA the Conductor is the boss of a passenger train.

I understand in Canada -- at least, under VIA -- that the engineer of varnish is the boss.  Wonder how that works out in practice?  -   a. s.

 

[kenneo]

What does this mean, besides the "highball" part, when a conductor says this to the engineer before departing a station?

The "highball" part you got.  "Signal Indication?" There is a block signal governing the movement of the train.  The Conductor wants to know what the indication is.  By FRA Rule, the engineer MUST call the signal to the fireman (if any) and to either the conductor or rear brakeman by radio.  That trainman must then acknowledge the indication.

A meet between #'s 11 and 14 at Hito, Oregon, might go something like --- ---

Engineer = "AMTK 14, red over yellow east end Hito, going inside."  Response = "#14 taking the hole at Hito."

Engineer = "AMTK 11, flashing yellow.  Train on the right 2 miles."  Response = "#11 Approach Medium."

Engineer = "AMTK 11, solid yellow.  14 in the hole at Hito"  Response = "#11 Approach roll-by #14."

Conductor = "AMTK 14, in the clear Hito."  Response = "#14 in the clear roll-by #11."

Engineer = "AMTK 11, high green east end Hito.  AMTK 11 to AMTK 14 highball the eyeball."

Engineer = "AMTK 14 to AMTK 11 highball - lookin' good."

Condr #11 = #11, high green - highball."

At this point, both rear trainmen give each other a highball (hand signal) out the rear window of their respective trains.

Engineer = "AMTK 14 lined out west end Hito."  Response = "#14 departing Hito"

Condr. = "AMTK 14 straight rail.  Highball."  Response = "#14 on the main highball."

[Anonymous]

Actually the "Signal Indication" part is a fairly new requirement Amtrak handed down. If we are departing a station and I (the Conductor) can see the next signal governing our movement we tell the engineer to "Proceed on signal indication". Evidently there have been enough occurances of an engineer looking PAST the signal directly in front of the train or doing something that caused the train to pass a Stop indication upon departing a station  that management wanted another level of protection. (Or so we were told!)

[daveklepper]

There is also the exceptional case, where to platform a train at a station where a temporary condition exists that does not have a signal properly located for a passenger station, and when in some cases, the engineer has to stop and proceed or proceed at walking-pace speed (depends on the railroad) past a red signal, or passes a yellow signal, the conductor may want to remind the engineer that he is still governed by the signal he passed, and cannot resume speed until he approaches the next signal and it has a less restrictive display.   This can be a very important reminder.

[hf1001]

There is also the exceptional case, where to platform a train at a station where a temporary condition exists that does not have a signal properly located for a passenger station, and when in some cases, the engineer has to stop and proceed or proceed at walking-pace speed (depends on the railroad) past a red signal, or passes a yellow signal, the conductor may want to remind the engineer that he is still governed by the signal he passed, and cannot resume speed until he approaches the next signal and it has a less restrictive display.   This can be a very important reminder.

So what your saying is, the conductor just wanted to remind the engineer that he still has a clear block? Sometimes the train still has clear block but the conductor doesn't remind him when he highballs a station. OH WELL, that is a good enough reason for me.  

[jeffhergert]

Generally in signalled territory if a train stops (or the speed drops below 10mph) where no signal is located you are delayed in the block.  What the last signal was no longer matters because conditions could have changed by the time you reach the next signal.

If you can't see the next signal there are restrictions on movement, how severe the restrictions depends on what kind of territory (ABS, CTC or a combination of either with cab signals) and type of train (psgr or frt), until you can see the next signal displaying a proceed indication and the track is clear to that signal.  

Jeff

[yellowcat16]

It means it's okay to move.  From the Old "high ball" literally a ball that was raised on a pole.  If the ball was up, it was okay to move.  If the ball was down, then stop.