Transcontinental Tourist Train

[daveklepper]

Post are pretty consistant that the Canadian is the top train in North America today.   The USA can and should do as well and market it overseas as a tourist draw.   The logical move is to combine either the Capitol Limited or the Cardinal with the California Zephyr and run through Washington DC to Emeryville.  Everything must be upgraded, of course, and it should include a staff chosen carefully and include a maintenance man and car cleaner.

[passengerfan]

It would be a great idea but only if Amtrak has nothing to do with it.

People paying those kind of bucks certainly do not want surly staff and dirty cars and plastic food.

What equipment would they use they don't have enough now. The Superliners are all in use likewise any other decent equipment, and they have now retired the last of the Samta Fe Hi-level coaches.

[daveklepper]

It has to be part of the national system and AMTRAK HAS TO GET ITS ACT TOGETHER.   IF THE CANADIANS CAN DO IT SO CAN THE USA!

[Paul Milenkovic]

IF THE CANADIANS CAN DO IT SO CAN THE USA!

Here I agree with you 100 percent that Amtrak should and can emulate what Canada is doing.

They operate on a yet smaller subsidy budget.  They concentrate on the Montreal-Toronto corridor (think NEC), some service out to the Maritime Provinces (think perhaps Empire Corridor or the California trains), and they concentrate on that one LD train.

They operate that one LD train with Heritage Fleet equipment (a lot bought from Amtrak) and F40s.  They vary the length of the consists greatly to meet summer demand.  From reports of people who have ridden it, they provide a high level of service and charge fares comeasurate with a luxury service.

Were Amtrak to let go of the Sunset and concentrate the resources on the Empire Builder, whatever they call the California Zephyr, and the Southwest Chief, we would be following the Canadian model.  But the advocacy community has visions of the glory of the passenger network from the 1920s and can't let go of anything (Three Rivers, now the Sunset) and we may end up with nothing instead of the Canadian-type system (NEC, state corridors, showcase LD trains).

[oltmannd]

I'd even go one step farther.

I'd restructure the eastern LD trains and Coast Starlight around corridors such that they would become bridge-the-gap trains.  For example, if you did the Ohio Hub and enhanced Empire Service, the Lake Shore would be the bridge between the two corridors.  The LD trains would only have to bear their incremental cost to operate.  Most of their route's fixed costs would be born by the corridor.

[cprted]

They operate that one LD train with Heritage Fleet equipment (a lot bought from Amtrak) and F40s.  They vary the length of the consists greatly to meet summer demand.  From reports of people who have ridden it, they provide a high level of service and charge fares comeasurate with a luxury service.

Not quite. All of the dome cars in use on Via are ex-CP cars built in the 50s. While they may be "heritage," those cars are the backbone of Via's rolling stock fleet. The F40s aren't really heritage either. They were the ones Via bought in late 80s to replace the fleet of ex-CP and CN F7s, F9s, and FA2s. Yes, the Canadian was pulled by F-units until the 1990ish. That was not out of some desire to promote heritage, but the reality of what Via had for motive power at the time.

The trains do get longer in the summer. Why wouldn't they? There is more demand. Doesn't Amtrak increase it's train lengths during the peak season? The service on Via isn't bad, but I wouldn't call it luxury. Also, you'll find the fares, even on the Canadian, to be competitive with other modes of transport. Out west, the train typically costs twice as much as the bus, but about 30% less than the plane. Check out Rocky Mountaineer Railtours or the Royal Canadian Pacific if you want to see what Canadian luxury rail travel is all about.

Via also has more than one LD train. While the Canadian is the Flagship of sorts, the Skeena also makes a two-day long run from Jasper to Prince Rupert and connects to the BC Ferries inside passage voyage. This route also uses the ex-CP dome cars. The dome cars also aren't going to be around forever. They have already been replaced on the Atlantic runs by the modern Renaissance equipment.

[al-in-chgo]

IF THE CANADIANS CAN DO IT SO CAN THE USA!

Here I agree with you 100 percent that Amtrak should and can emulate what Canada is doing.

They operate on a yet smaller subsidy budget.  They concentrate on the Montreal-Toronto corridor (think NEC), some service out to the Maritime Provinces (think perhaps Empire Corridor or the California trains), and they concentrate on that one LD train.

They operate that one LD train with Heritage Fleet equipment (a lot bought from Amtrak) and F40s.  They vary the length of the consists greatly to meet summer demand.  From reports of people who have ridden it, they provide a high level of service and charge fares comeasurate with a luxury service.

Were Amtrak to let go of the Sunset and concentrate the resources on the Empire Builder, whatever they call the California Zephyr, and the Southwest Chief, we would be following the Canadian model.  But the advocacy community has visions of the glory of the passenger network from the 1920s and can't let go of anything (Three Rivers, now the Sunset) and we may end up with nothing instead of the Canadian-type system (NEC, state corridors, showcase LD trains).

 

SO  agree with you!  And I should note that VIA's tiny (even proportionately it's small) Canadian fed'l-government assistance is every bit as politicized as Amtrak's, if not more so. 

I've ridden on Amtrak at fairly regular intervals since the mid-seventies but use it pretty much just when it is clearly the superior mode of travel and none other comes close, at least none that I know of.  I wrote more below but it became such a rant -- albeit a focused rant  -- that I'm starting a new thread on this board called, "Is it just me, or . . . ?"

[daveklepper]

I think you will find that the overall per passenger subsidy is approximately equal for Via and Amtrak.   The subsidy per passenger being greater in VIA's corridor trains and less in their long distance trains.  But you will also find that the subsidy for VIA in total per capita citizen of Canada is about twice that of Amtrak per capita citizen of the USA.    Why:

Because the average Canadian's recognition of the value of the trains he doesn't use is recognized more by the politicians than the average USA citizen's recognition of the value of the trains he doesn't use is recognized.

Canada's political elite has been educated to the tremendous value of Canada's long distance trains for tourism.  Someone should tackle the leading Presidential Candidates on this issue and to just walk away from this effort with the statement "I won't vote" or "Let's start a Third Party" is a copout.   Phil Hastings, are you listening?

And the Sunset should be repaired, not scrapped!

[Wdlgln005]

When the Superliners & the F40's were new, they were considered fine trains. The California Zephyr ran aon a similar schedule to the Rio Grande Zephyr, offering a good view of the Colorado Canyons. IMHO they began to suffer when all the mail & boxcars were added, making a much heavier train. Having video aboard the lounges helped pass the time for the EB going thru Montana & ND. The Cardinal may be the most scenic of the Eastern routes.

[ndbprr]

It has been tried and the American European Express has failed on every route it has run. 

[daveklepper]

Not part of a national system and not widely promoted by travel agents abroad.

[Anonymous]

It is better to rent a Private Pullman for 6K per day and have it go where you want to go.

[daveklepper]

What to meet more typical Canadians riding on the Canadian?   Step into the long distance coaches, right this way gentlemen and ladies.....

Interesting that the price differential is even greater but difference in level of service less!