Truckers sue PA Turnpike because tolls are subsidizing public transit

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Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, August 18, 2018 8:08 PM

BaltACD
 Backshop Sorry, it happened just around 400 years ago, not 500.  

Columbus in 1492 is still considered when the 'New World' was found. 

By Europeans!  Well, not exactly.  It appears, at least this seems to be the consensus of many scholars, the Vikings established settlements in Newfoundland around 1000 CE.  Remnants of their settlements were found in 1960.  They did not, however, put down permanent roots. 

Although scholars differ on the dates, many if not most seem to agree that the first humans arrived in North America about 12,000 to 13,500 years ago.  Chris was a bit of late comer. 

Another little know fact is that Columbus had four ships on his first voyage to the new world, although he only gets credit for three:  Of course, we all remember the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria.  The fourth was the Sangria.  It was the party boat, but the friars that accompanied Chris did not want that known. 

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 18, 2018 9:55 PM

PJS1
 The fourth was the Sangria.  It was the party boat, but the friars that accompanied Chris did not want that known. 

And of course they created the wine of the same name!

         

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, August 19, 2018 8:48 AM

BaltACD
 PJS1  The fourth was the Sangria.  It was the party boat, but the friars that accompanied Chris did not want that known.  

And of course they created the wine of the same name! 

Of course.  It was a slow boat; they did not have anything else to do.  That's the reason they had stocked it with so many pounds of grapes.

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 19, 2018 10:24 AM

isn't it interesting.  RRs taxed for decades to subsudize the roads but let the tables turn ?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:42 PM

BaltACD
Columbus in 1492 is still considered when the 'New World' was found.

Official propaganda so the Italians could have their own named holiday.

I suppose you consider the ensuing century of Spanish 'colonization' activity representative of the best American traditions?  Although some of the effects, like the remnants of de Soto's expedition bringing disease to wipe out native cultures in the Mississippi valley, likely did assist the "frontiersmen" in expanding to the West...

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Sunday, August 19, 2018 4:57 PM

   It's always fascinating to watch how conversations evolve.

_____________

   "A stranger is just a friend you ain't met yet."  ___ Dave Gardner

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Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, August 19, 2018 10:34 PM

alphas wrote the following[in part]: "...One solution that has been floated would be to sell the PA Turnpike to a private operator for billions--then put the money in the pension funds to go a long way towards bailing them out.    The Turnpike unions don't want that and the rest of the state employee unions don't want it either as that could start a trend.      So it hasn't gone anywhere..."

THis seems to ba a major issue in the political thinking process, whereever there is a STATE OPERATED Toll road.   In many states the state employee pension funds have failed to keep up with the outgoing expenses/pensions.[ Too many employees, and too many 'extra benefits' given out of the Systems Funding(?). The Too Authorities, seem to be able to build up large sums from the Toll collected; either not enough scheduled major maintenance projects(?). Or is it an issue of just running the tools[in perpituity(?)]  I think that Kentucky has been the only state to drop toll collections when they had reached the point of paying out their bonded indebtedness.   The others just seem to keep on going on, bureucracies being what they are?

    They'll find another project to breathe more life into their Toll Systems, and acrue more debt.   Illinois, seems to do that(?).    Kansas seems to be constantly fighting that political battle, as the State Supreme court keeps upping the demands for more money, for the the State Public School, systems. In Kansas there are 105 Counties, and 321 school Districts. 

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, August 19, 2018 10:50 PM

Decades ago they built a toll expressway between Denver and Boulder, but as soon as construction was paid for, the toll boths came down.  Denver has since built more toll-ways, but they don't seem so quick to forgo the income this time.

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, August 20, 2018 2:30 PM

CandOforprogress2

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2018/07/27/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-truckers-lawsuit-PennDOT-Port-Authority-transit-payment/stories/201807260203

 

Easy.  Just say all truck tolls go to cover the roadway's costs and that passenger vehicle tolls cover the difference and are used for transit.

"No dollars collected from trucks go to transit".  Done.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 20, 2018 4:48 PM

samfp1943
In Kansas there are 105 Counties, and 321 school Districts. 

Ohio has 88 counties and 569 school districts.  So?

Each state in the USA has their own plan on how to short education of proper funding.

         

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, August 20, 2018 8:49 PM

BaltACD
Columbus in 1492 is still considered when the 'New World' was found.

It's a common mistake.    Columbus discovered Haiti and the Bahamas but not what is now the United States.    Columbus led an expedition whose intent was to circumnavigate the globe he ran into problems.   One of his three ships had to be scuttled and the other two sailed back to Spain with their original crews.    That was his first 1492 expedition.

The Mayflower is the ship that landed in Plymouth and primarily it's crew and passengers were British and English speaking (Thank God.....as you can guess where the current immigration debate would be if they primarily spoke Spanish).

Anyhoo, most of America's first settlers were indentured servants from primarily White European families because that was the only way they could afford to pay for passage.    Socially what happened is the indentured servitude contracts became more and more expensive and thats how we got into the slave trade with Africans.   They were cheaper and their costs could be more easily controlled via an almost unlimited supply and most favorably they did not have contracts which stipulated a fixed date on when the debt would be paid in full and they would be set free.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, August 20, 2018 10:01 PM

Shortly after Columbus, the Spanish and possibly the Portuguese were in Florida, about 100 years before Jamestown or Plymouth.

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Posted by aegrotatio on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 12:40 PM

Something like 85% of bridges and tunnel tolls in New York City pay for mass transit and most of it goes to the Subway.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:51 PM

aegrotatio

Something like 85% of bridges and tunnel tolls in New York City pay for mass transit and most of it goes to the Subway.

Since most toll bridges and tunnels are operated by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, I would assume that PATH is the recipient of any subsidy.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 7:16 PM

 [/quote]

CMStPnP
The Mayflower is the ship that landed in Plymouth and primarily it's crew and passengers were British and English speaking (Thank God.....as you can guess where the current immigration debate would be if they primarily spoke Spanish).

  Hmmmm.  Nope.  I can't guess where the current immigration debate would be if they spoke Spanish.   Nor can I imagine why I should thank God for that.

   Would you care to elaborate?

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 4:36 AM

Some tolls are collected by the City and not the PA.   Possibly the Brooklyn - Battery Tunnel?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 6:51 AM

NKP guy

 

 
CMStPnP
The Mayflower is the ship that landed in Plymouth and primarily it's crew and passengers were British and English speaking (Thank God.....as you can guess where the current immigration debate would be if they primarily spoke Spanish).

  Hmmmm.  Nope.  I can't guess where the current immigration debate would be if they spoke Spanish.   Nor can I imagine why I should thank God for that.

   Would you care to elaborate?

[/quote]

He is probably unaware that a major debate took place in the Continental Congress regarding the choice of English or German as the national language.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:39 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Since most toll bridges and tunnels are operated by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, I would assume that PATH is the recipient of any subsidy.

He probably lives in Illinois.

There are many toll crossings in the New York area that do not involve passing between New York and New Jersey.  The old Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority (remember the infamous Robert Moses?) is now rolled into MTA Bridges and Tunnels ... does that MTA ring a bell, Chicagoans? ... which handles those crossings.  Here is one listing of current tolls, which also shows which bridges and tunnels are involved:

http://web.mta.info/bandt/traffic/btmain.html

Mr. Klepper's Brooklyn-Battery tunnel has been politically renamed for Hugh Carey.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:14 AM

Thanks, Overmod, for the up-to-date and accurate information! 

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