No, the cars never got holding tanks, but they may have been in the long-term plans for the excursion fleet. As a matter of fact, the steam excusion crew at NS were just as blindsided by the shut down as anyone else, one project they were involved in at the time was the conversion of a baggage car into an updated state of the art head-end power car, then BOOM! Orders came to shut the whole thing down.
Shocked everybody here in Virginia, let me tell you! The local paper here, the Richmond Times-Dispatch, even front-paged the story. Lady Firestorm saw it first and let out such a gasp that I thought somebody died!
Firelock76This was back in 1991 or 1992 or so, certainly before 1994 when the NS steam program was cancelled. The consist wasn't made up of Amtrak cars, but vintage N&W cars belonging to NS and various NRHS chapters. All original, no holding tanks. Possibly had the steam program lasted past 1994 the cars might have been retro-fit with holding tanks, but to my knowledge at the time none had them.
The consist wasn't made up of Amtrak cars, but vintage N&W cars belonging to NS and various NRHS chapters. All original, no holding tanks.
Possibly had the steam program lasted past 1994 the cars might have been retro-fit with holding tanks, but to my knowledge at the time none had them.
I just pulled out the August 1993 issue of Trains which had a nice article about Norfolk Southern's rebuild program for the excursion fleet that had just been completed, curious about this.
Not a mention of holding tanks anywhere.
Hotels in downtowns yes..found that to be the case in Indy IN. Shhh just dont tell anyone.
PRO TIP: Hotels have the best, cleanest (they get cleaned a few times a day) public restrooms you will find. There will be many in the lobby or ballroom/conference room levels of the hotel.
Distinct clones of shad lived in many of the major and minor rivers in the East.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Analysis-of-American-shad-population-structure-using-the-Bayesian-clustering-algorithm_fig2_261512046
tells some very interesting stories about how well-meant attempts to stock stressed or overfished rivers may have caused irreparable genetic change.
Overmod, and everyone else for that matter, you may find this interesting.
http://www.njpalisades.org/timesTides.html
It's a brief overview of the shad fishery on the Hudson, late in the game though.
Grandpa didn't fish like that though, he just used a pole and a line!
Shad also migrate up a number of rivers on the East Coast, the James and Appomattox here in Virginia for example.
In fact, in April of 1865 when Sheridan punched through George Pickett's line and broke the Petersburg stalemate ol' George was away from the front attending a shad bake! Lee was furious at Pickett for being away from his post and relieved him of command of his division, although Pickett's immediate CO General Longstreet said Sheridan's force was so powerful there was nothing Pickett could have done to stop it, even if he was there on the front line.
I hope for Pickett's sake that shad was tasty!
Both the North and South Rivers we're famous for shad, and I think remained so right up to the time we had to be saved from ourselves. I am still bitter that my plan to revive the famous New Jersey caviar industry repeatedly failed (now until the effects of remediating dredging have settled down, probably not in my lifetime, followed by the PCB/dioxin free sturgeon growing to proper size...). Hard to believe south Jersey supplied most of the connoisseurs of Europe in the late 19th Century!
Interesting. This was before my time, but my grandfather used to fish from Alpine Landing on the Hudson River and would catch shad during the yearly runs. Most of the time, though, he'd come home with stripers or what was locally known as "tommycod."
According to my father, they were all good to eat!
Had fried Shad Roe at a Diner in Richmond VA....Disgusting when you think about it.-"Shad is an American saltwater fish, a type of herring that spawns in fresh water at the start of spring. The American shad, a boney fish that is typically three to five pounds each, is prized not for its flesh but for its eggs, a delicacy known as shad roe."
Firelock76Hey Overmod, where did your grandfather go shad fishing? I'm curious.
Rivers in NE Pennsylvania; I regret that these were stories told when I was very small and I did not think to ask before shad became "illegal" in the early Seventies. It is not at all difficult to bone shad if you know the trick which is turning the fillet knife a particular way to get the extra sets of bones to slide out without detaching from the spine. But I have forgotten exactly how that was done, just as I can't remember how to re-coil one of those expanding landing nets.
My father told stories of fishing the Shohola gorge, which is a fairly long way from Kingston, so the actual range of rivers might be larger than expected.
Hey Overmod, where did your grandfather go shad fishing? I'm curious.
Oh, and the Southern thing to do with catfish, at least in some places, is to put them in fresh water tanks for a few days to get the muddy taste out.
Don't get me started on Red Lobster!
I had the worst case of indigestion EVER from eating at a Red Lobster 35 years ago. I'd have KILLED to have gotten my hands on a bottle of Alka-Seltzer or Brioschi that night!
I don't think that particular restaurant is there anymore, so if there's some of you who go to a Red Lobster on a regular basis and enjoy it don't be put off by my experience.
OvermodYes, and many of them have various kinds of parasite or coliform load that makes subsequent consumption a decidedly unpleasant kind of crapshoot.
Wasn't that Red Lobster's slogan one summer?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
BaltACDDon't all the inhabitants of both fresh and salt water eliminate wastes?
Yes, and many of them have various kinds of parasite or coliform load that makes subsequent consumption a decidedly unpleasant kind of crapshoot. (Clever reference, wasn't it?) I wouldn't want to make book that the general excremental load of a given Amtrak train did not contain biohazardous material, no matter how appealing the whole circle-of-life argument is from a PR standpoint.
Bottom feeders add some additional things to the mix, including heavy metals and a bunch of organic things (remember the fun with fat-soluble material in the Hudson River, both as 'encountered' by sturgeon and as dredged for remediation?)
I don't care for catfish unless it's farm-raised, as I can often taste the 'difference' in natural-caught fillets and I don't like it. On the other hand, I hope I will see a resurgence in shad before I die or lose too many taste buds; I can still dimly remember my grandfather teaching me how to bone them, and they are among the tastiest of fish.
Firelock76Don't know about you, but I wouldn't eat any fish caught under that bridge! There was a reason Lady Firestorm's mother, a Newfoundland outport girl, wouldn't eat any bottom feeders! She would make an exception for lobster!
There was a reason Lady Firestorm's mother, a Newfoundland outport girl, wouldn't eat any bottom feeders! She would make an exception for lobster!
Don't all the inhabitants of both fresh and salt water -eliminate wastes and I haven't seen any special 'facilities' when watching Planet Earth and Blue Planet on BBC America. Everything those animals 'do' does eventually filter on down to the bottom - be that a foot or 37K feet down, including the animals themselves when they die. It's a fish eat fish world in the water!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Was watching NCAA Basketball, got frustraterd watching Marshall kick around the Shockers, came in here and found this Thread. Sort of stunned that this one has not gotten itself locked up yet, based on the subject matter....
'Public Facilties' being what they are, and the general public being ,currently, what they are. In High School, I worked as a baggage agent for our local Trailways Bus Sation, retention tank releases by passengers in the bus station were a problem, a very, fragrant problem. I've heard stories by railrioaders of their 'issues' in the era of pre-retention tanks on passenger equipment. Some pretty, ugly stuff! In recent years most of my travels have been by auto, so my 'timing was my own'; old trucker's tend to be able to pick times, and places, as well. . I would guess the train crews are also adept at doing the same....
My understanding, is that these days[ information from 'media' tales.] Most large cities have allowed, by ordenance changes;the public displays of natural functions; to take place at the individual's whim, as to the point at which they unlimber, and let fly. The cop's are not writing tickets, and per the politicians instructions, and must look in other directions(?) Have not been to NYC or LA or other big cities to witness these new ways of doing things, but apparently, the politicians thing they do this to getr the voter to vote for them..... Retention tanks on AMTRAK seem like a very good idea.
Don't know about you, but I wouldn't eat any fish caught under that bridge!
I do remember that Amtrak controversy. The bridge was well posted with "Do Not Walk On Nor Trespass Near The Bridge" signs, but there's always some dummies who think the rules don't apply to them. Several got splattered and sued Amtrak. Then Amtrak president Graham Claytor threatened to cut off Amtrak service to Florida if the suit went through.
Long story short, it wasn't too long afterward the holding tank installs began.
I recall reading in the mag, Passenger Train Journal that fishermen in the St. John's river in Florida complained about being "rained" on by the sewage coming from the Amtrak trains and that is why they installed retention toilets. The fishing was good under the bridge, apparently because of the sewage coming from the Amtrak trains.
BaltACD Firelock76 Hey 'Dude, I can understand that. Back in the 90's on a N&W 611 excursion an old lady flushed the toilet while the train was stopped at the Appomattox station, right in front of the just de-trained excursion passengers. GLOOOSH!!! I thought the car hostess was going to die of embarassment! She ran back into the car, too late at that point, and we could hear someone wailing inside "But Mother had to gooooo...!" I thought, after Amtrak was forced to go to retention toilets that all passenger cars that had toilets had to be equipped with retention equipment - including private cars that are required to have a 'AMTK' number to be operated on Amtrak. Most all private owners do have their cars operate on Amtrak from time to time.
Firelock76 Hey 'Dude, I can understand that. Back in the 90's on a N&W 611 excursion an old lady flushed the toilet while the train was stopped at the Appomattox station, right in front of the just de-trained excursion passengers. GLOOOSH!!! I thought the car hostess was going to die of embarassment! She ran back into the car, too late at that point, and we could hear someone wailing inside "But Mother had to gooooo...!"
I thought the car hostess was going to die of embarassment! She ran back into the car, too late at that point, and we could hear someone wailing inside "But Mother had to gooooo...!"
I thought, after Amtrak was forced to go to retention toilets that all passenger cars that had toilets had to be equipped with retention equipment - including private cars that are required to have a 'AMTK' number to be operated on Amtrak. Most all private owners do have their cars operate on Amtrak from time to time.
This was back in 1991 or 1992 or so, certainly before 1994 when the NS steam program was cancelled.
"Mothers" car certainly didn't have one! I know! I was there!
Firelock76Hey 'Dude, I can understand that. Back in the 90's on a N&W 611 excursion an old lady flushed the toilet while the train was stopped at the Appomattox station, right in front of the just de-trained excursion passengers. GLOOOSH!!! I thought the car hostess was going to die of embarassment! She ran back into the car, too late at that point, and we could hear someone wailing inside "But Mother had to gooooo...!"
To get to the Herew U. library to use my laptop with a wideband server, the old direct 48 bus now runs just twice in the morning, usually too early for me to use for that purpose, and approx. 8:35 pm and 11:30 pm, great for my going to my apartment after a day at the Yeshiva. But after breakfast, the choice is to hike the whole mile, witht he weight of my laptop, or walk aboug 1/ mile and board an 84, from the Mt. of Olives Cemetery, for trip to the Amunition Hill LRT station, and then backtrack on the 34 to the University.
But recently a boarded the 84 snd was the only passenger. The driver said: (trans.) I'm going to the University, not to light rail. I said: OK with me.
The University has johns. The light rail station does not.
Hey 'Dude, I can understand that. Back in the 90's on a N&W 611 excursion an old lady flushed the toilet while the train was stopped at the Appomattox station, right in front of the just de-trained excursion passengers. GLOOOSH!!!
Firelock76 BaltACD Firelock76 I waited to use the facilities at the antique show were were going to. I wish I hadn't, my eyes crossed at the, um, "aroma" in the men's room at the show! Authentic antique facility aroma! Yeah, I suppose if I was into outhouse collectables I'd have been impressed!
BaltACD Firelock76 I waited to use the facilities at the antique show were were going to. I wish I hadn't, my eyes crossed at the, um, "aroma" in the men's room at the show! Authentic antique facility aroma!
Firelock76 I waited to use the facilities at the antique show were were going to. I wish I hadn't, my eyes crossed at the, um, "aroma" in the men's room at the show!
Authentic antique facility aroma!
Yeah, I suppose if I was into outhouse collectables I'd have been impressed!
Did they have old magazines instead of a roll? That would be really authentic!
Eaton's was a staple of most "outdoor establishments" across Canada for many years.
We have a public washroom at our Museum, it is marked on the map we give to visitors and there are several signs pointing to it. But we still have to put up "out of order" signs in all the passenger cars to remind people.
Even then, on occasion we get someone who must have been illiterate...
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Thereere should be a App for this. As I get older answering the call from nature should be possible on a Smart Phone.
Firelock76I waited to use the facilities at the antique show were were going to. I wish I hadn't, my eyes crossed at the, um, "aroma" in the men's room at the show!
And if you're on the road you can always look for a Wal-Mart. The rest rooms are usually near the front entrances, and they don't care who walks in and uses them.
The same can be said for most new supermarkets.
Now sometimes, sometimes, you can get lucky at a transit station, especially if it's a big one. We were picking up a friend at the DC Metro station in Vienna VA and after a two-hour drive Lady Firestorm really had to use the facilities, but there were none to be found. She asked a female transit cop if there were any "ladies rooms" nearby, and that fine officer directed her to the rest room the transit police use, "hidden in plain sight," to use a phrase.
I waited to use the facilities at the antique show were were going to. I wish I hadn't, my eyes crossed at the, um, "aroma" in the men's room at the show!
In times of need I look for Mickey D's.
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