Portland train killings
A convicted felon fatally stabbed two people and injured a third on a MAX light-rail train in Oregon's largest city Friday as people confronted him for "yelling a gamut of anti-Muslim and anti-everything slurs," a Portland police spokesman said.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
That boy has some issues....
23 17 46 11
They should take that miserable POS, try 'im and fry 'im, he won't be missed by society in general. Or throw him in a cell and weld the door shut, at least.
I know I sound like a bloodythirsty meanie, but I'm sick of excuses. A mad dog is a mad dog, whether it stands on four legs or two.
How fitting that on Memorial Day weekend our nation should lose two fine men in the War on Hate. To my mind, Mr. Best and Mr. Meche represent the best of our country, and their brave and selfless deed of protecting the most vulnerable among us deserves to be memorialized with a plaque or statue, to say the least.
I'm proud to live in a country that produced these two great citizens and heroes.
"Greater love hath no man than he would lay down his life for his friends."
NKP guy How fitting that on Memorial Day weekend our nation should lose two fine men in the War on Hate. To my mind, Mr. Best and Mr. Meche represent the best of our country, and their brave and selfless deed of protecting the most vulnerable among us deserves to be memorialized with a plaque or statue, to say the least. I'm proud to live in a country that produced these two great citizens and heroes. "Greater love hath no man than he would lay down his life for his friends."
And maybe had they been armed they could have defended those women without being harmed, and possibly without firing a shot. This kind of coward will almost always retreat when confronted with greater force.
As for the guy who did this, speedy trial and swift..........
Sheldon
Well said NKP Guy! There's nothing I can add to your observation, you said it all.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL NKP guy How fitting that on Memorial Day weekend our nation should lose two fine men in the War on Hate. To my mind, Mr. Best and Mr. Meche represent the best of our country, and their brave and selfless deed of protecting the most vulnerable among us deserves to be memorialized with a plaque or statue, to say the least. I'm proud to live in a country that produced these two great citizens and heroes. "Greater love hath no man than he would lay down his life for his friends." And maybe had they been armed they could have defended those women without being harmed,
And maybe had they been armed they could have defended those women without being harmed,
Or another innocent person could have died because of a stray bullet fired in a stuggle....
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Or another innocent person could have died because of a stray bullet fired in a stuggle....
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd maybe had they been armed they could have defended those women without being harmed, and possibly without firing a shot. This kind of coward will almost always retreat when confronted with greater force. As for the guy who did this, speedy trial and swift.......... Sheldon
Red herrings are still lovely this time of year.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Backshop n012944 Or another innocent person could have died because of a stray bullet fired in a stuggle.... How many times has that happened when a legally armed person has had to draw their weapon to defend themselves or others? Actual newspaper articles or something similar would be appreciated.
How many times has that happened when a legally armed person has had to draw their weapon to defend themselves or others? Actual newspaper articles or something similar would be appreciated.
Whenever persons without law enforecement uniforms are in possession of and using a firearm - they become viewed as perpertrators when uniformed law enforcement arrives on the scene. Take a look at the statistics concerning under cover and/or off duty police that become involved in 3rd party gun play and are killed or seriously injured by their own 'brothers in arms' who are unable differentiate armed civilians between good and bad.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
This is what scares me to death. For the last 30 years of my employment I was in plain clothes. My fellow officers even those from neighboring jurisdictions knew me. What worried the heck outta me was the good Samaritan not seeing the bad guy but seeing me shooting at "something" and he starts to unload In my direction. Not good?
Exactly! It's no wonder things like this happen. We live in a time where the flames of bigotry and racial hatred are fanned by irresponsible public figures. The marginalized and mentally unstable are especially likely to act under those influences.
BaltACD Whenever persons without law enforecement uniforms are in possession of and using a firearm - they become viewed as perpertrators when uniformed law enforcement arrives on the scene. Take a look at the statistics concerning under cover and/or off duty police that become involved in 3rd party gun play and are killed or seriously injured by their own 'brothers in arms' who are unable differentiate armed civilians between good and bad.
Backshop wrote
"Okay, so how many legally carrying civilians have been mistaken for perps and shot by responding police?"
Tried Google search - Didn't find any Also didn't find any police shot by armed "good samaritians." This doesn't mean there wern't any in either case.
I was not able to find statistics on either govt or agenda web sites. .
There were a number of actual news articles (NBC, CNN, etc) about armed "good samatitians" saving police officers.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94403
Nice links but that wasn't the question.
Backshop Nice links but that wasn't the question.
It wasn't your question but it was Balt giving supporting citations for the point he was making.
Having untrained civilians attempting to get an armed and mentally disturbed person under control is often a disaster in waiting. The potential for casualties is even worse if they are attempting to be self-appointed police with guns as Sheldon recommends.
schlimm It wasn't your question but it was Balt giving supporting citations for the point he was making. Having untrained civilians attempting to get an armed and mentally disturbed person under control is often a disaster in waiting. The potential for casualties is even worse if they are attempting to be self-appointed police with guns as Sheldon recommends.
That is not really what I was recommending.
Fact, most people with carry permits are reasonably well trained, and very conservative and reserved as to when they would draw their weapon.
But once confronted by an agressor with a knife, it would be approperate to draw your weapon and use it if necessary.
It is not about thinking you are the self appointed police, it is about the right to use whatever force necsssary to defend yourself or others.
Which is my right as I see it.
Exactly!
As I understand it, the three "Good Samaritans" understandably confronted the disturbed man because he was shouting vile language at the two women, who retreated to the back of the car. It was only at that point he pulled his knife and stabbed the attempted heros, two of whom died. In retrospect, it would have been safer to call 911 and let the police handle it. Link to update
Having would-be cowboys having a shootout in a crowded train, as Sheldon's remarks imply, seems very dangerous to all involved. The notion that people like himself are as well trained in managing disturbed, armed and violent people is an insult to our trained police.
schlimm As I understand it, the three "Good Samaritans" understandably confronted the disturbed man because he was shouting vile language at the two women, who retreated to the back of the car. It was only at that point he pulled his knife and stabbed the attempted heros, two of whom died. In retrospect, it would have been safer to call 911 and let the police handle it. Link to update Having would-be cowboys having a shootout in a crowded train, as Sheldon's remarks imply, seems very dangerous to all involved. The notion that people like himself are as well trained in managing disturbed, armed and violent people is an insult to our trained police.
BTW--What are you supposed to do until the police show up? You keep talking about "managing", when someone pulls a knife or other deadly weapon, you end the threat. Two (almost three) men died, how much worse could it have been than it was?
Hindsight is 20/20. Who said anything about vigilantes? You keep talking about things that have never happened. Hopefully, you are never confronted by a criminal and have people dependent on you for "diffusing the dangerous situation". Why don't you just admit that guns scare you and because you can't handle them and don't think that anyone else can, either?
Allow me to Google that for you....
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/264755/carjacking-gone-wrong-houston-texas/
"A carjacking in Houston, Texas, turned bloody when an armed good Samaritan opened fire on the car thieves but hit the carjacking victim instead"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bystander-wounded-during-shootout-between-robber-shop-owner-20151206-story.html
"A man standing at a bus stop is recovering at home after being wounded by a stray bullet during a shootout between a shop owner and an armed robber "
Those are just the start, plenty of other articles out there, along with a FBI report that debunks the NRA's "good guy with a gun fixes everything". BS. Do the research yourself if you are that concered about it.
So what are you supposed to do if a criminal pulls a gun on you? BTW--those two incidents are far outweighed by these..
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/
I know you won't read it because it's from the NRA, but they are actually reported by local news outlets.
schlimm,
First, a gun, in the hands of law inforcement or a citizen, is no guaranty of safety, for anyone, it is simply a chance when otherwise one might not exist.
But I'm not really up for much of this conversation.
Come talk to me when you have had to defend yourself or your family against a half dozen thugs trying to break into your property while you are home - I have had such an experiance. Luckily the simple brandishing of my firearm scared them off. But there were six of them and one of me, so I'm glad it was a 9mm semi auto pistol with 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber, and another 15 round mag in my pocket.
My wife was ill and bed ridden, it was late at night, the police came, long after I had scared off the intruders, and the police were pre-informed that I was armed when she called 911. I carried my sidearm on my person the whole time the police were on my property - they had no problem with me being armed.
The criminals were captured later that night trying to break into another house.....and were caught with property from the break in before my house.....
And I live in the rich, cushy, rural suburbs.......
Am I a "vigilante" because I defended my home and family? Talk about a red herring......
You can wait for the police, I'm pretty well trained acording to my range instructor......
In a country of over 350 million people anyone can find a story or two to back up thier point of view. I'm only interested in the safety of my family and my community.
One last parting thought - any society that does not value the good people, more than the bad people, is doomed.
I like how some people like blaming the victims. "If they hadn't confronted him, everything would have been alright". How do you know that? The one victim was a retired Army sargeant. That's what people do. Or maybe, since the women were Muslims, some people don't think that they're worth defending?
Backshop Hindsight is 20/20. Who said anything about vigilantes? You keep talking about things that have never happened. Hopefully, you are never confronted by a criminal and have people dependent on you for "diffusing the dangerous situation". Why don't you just admit that guns scare you and because you can't handle them and don't think that anyone else can, either?
It is people who do not know what they are talking about like you are a menace to society. The thought of you or Sheldon attempting to manage a dangerous situation armed with a popgun that you might start firing on a crowded rail car would be hilarious if it were not so dangerous to innocent bystanders. n012944 cited several cases that debunk the NRA's alternative fact ala mode. Comment? And BTW, you put "diffusing" in quotations as though someone such as I had ignorantly written that. It's defuse. Diffuse refers to scattered.
n012944 Backshop n012944 Or another innocent person could have died because of a stray bullet fired in a stuggle.... How many times has that happened when a legally armed person has had to draw their weapon to defend themselves or others? Actual newspaper articles or something similar would be appreciated. Allow me to Google that for you.... http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/264755/carjacking-gone-wrong-houston-texas/ "A carjacking in Houston, Texas, turned bloody when an armed good Samaritan opened fire on the car thieves but hit the carjacking victim instead" http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bystander-wounded-during-shootout-between-robber-shop-owner-20151206-story.html "A man standing at a bus stop is recovering at home after being wounded by a stray bullet during a shootout between a shop owner and an armed robber " Those are just the start, plenty of other articles out there, along with a FBI report that debunks the NRA's "good guy with a gun fixes everything". BS. Do the research yourself if you are that concered about it.
+1!! But I doubt if he will read them, much like understand. He'd rather play "cops and robbers" v.2a.
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