Trains.com

Commuter rail capacity problems

1447 views
8 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Commuter rail capacity problems
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 3, 2016 8:54 AM

The latest problems at SEPTA with their grounding of all Silverliner - 5s is just a indication of what is happening at many locations through out the USA.  This is not even going to cover the Amtrak shortages as well. Here are various problems.

1.  MBTA has old cars and failing locos as well and has shortges on present routes because new cars are being bad ordered.  They will not be able to provide cars for promised Springfield services.

2.  MNRR so far is able to serve increasing demand but this past weekend has been crowded.  What happens when the equippment is needed for the New Haven - Hartford - Springfield service ?

2a.  SLE has not changed its loco hauled trains to EMUs for undisclosd reasons but maybe CDOT does not want M-8s robbed from GCT trains ?

3.  Reports that LIRR had to cancel some trains Friday robbing them for other route extra trains due to dangerous overcrowding at Jamacia.

4.  NJT still has not recovered from Sandy with many damaged cars beyond reasonable repair.

4.  SEPTA retired  ( scrapped ? ) its 2s and 3s  and now with -5s sidelined ?

5.  MARC has been overcrowded and many days will have to reduce train car counts due to no spare equippment to replaced bad ordered cars,

6.  VRE  Same as MARC but also has too many short platforms and no more slots across Long Bridge. Many complaints of old METRA equipment from passengers.

7. CHI METRA Rebuilding old legacy coaches and spare equipment count is considered too low.  Only electric lines have enough equipment.

8.  Denver's future is uncertain until SEPTA'S problems are better understool.

9.  Sounder is OK at present.

10.  The problems of the Nippon bilevels building will affect midwest routes and Capital corridor, San Jose, LAX Metrolink,

11.  Capital corridor is using old NJY Coment cars and is not happy with them.

12. Uta Front runner is rebuilding some old single level cars to add to their tains due to demand.

14.  Forgot about Caltrain.  They are suffering from too many passengers with not enough passenger cars.  They have decided to forgo loco hauled cars in  antipitation of buying EMUs for their electrification which has a 2020  (?) completion day.  will they be able to get EMUs by then ?  Only  ---- knows. When push comes to shove if electrification is activated maybe get some ACS-64s .

Another problem is the large number of short platform stations  ( 5 -6 car )  Caltrain did mitigate that by starting their very successful baby bullet longer trains that bypassed the short platform stations

TriTail, Sun rail, TRE, Music city, Mineapolis seem to be OK. Wth these shortages nation wide how can their be any meaniful expansion until more cars and some more locos are built ?

,    

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 3, 2016 9:04 AM

Great post.  Thanks.  I believe it is symptomatic of a much larger structural problem.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 3, 2016 10:24 AM

schlimm
Great post.  Thanks.  I believe it is symptomatic of a much larger structural problem.

With a number of aspects.  These include:

Economics involved with 'least costly' bidding (and the expectation, regrettably common in military-industrial large projects, that overruns can be piled up to pay for mistakes...) -- this has been repeatedly cited with respect to Rotem vs. Kawasaki for the Silverliner V order for SEPTA

"Feast or famine" economics - the thing that nominally killed Budd as a carbuilder in Red Lion, and that I believe ran the order for 'additional Acela cars' from Bombardier out of cost-effective possibility

Coordination of production capacity (plant, employment, testing, delivery) with development of new transit projects so that the equipment is 'just ready' when needed -- not too early and sitting around rusting; not too late while clients sit miserably waiting for trains.

Coordination of strategic materials and components -- vividly experienced with the Superliner Vs when FRA-mandated steel suddenly got snapped up building IED-resistant vehicles for the Iraq adventure.  This was a big familiar issue when Keynes was writing Economic Consequences of the Peace: it's possible to do a good CPM for all the supply modalities, but it is difficult and expensive to do it across the range of all industries (without properly-running and maintained synthetic models) and it is all too easy to kill important strategic supply companies with miscalculations (look at the history of big steam after the mid-1940s for a dramatic illustration when there are any barriers to entry for 'substitute' or fungible firms to take up the supply)

Design optimizations that turn out to be anything but.  (I wouldn't have put the Comet Is in that category, because I thought they were great for many years after being introduced, but YMMV apparently).  Here the whole subject of cab cars that don't pass crash testing, or cab cars that do but then prove ridiculously incapable of real-world crash survival, are good illustrations.  As are transit cars built purposely light, with composite wheels, to permit reductions in ROW expense (BART) or with a limited number of strategic bolts holding key assemblies in place (NYC subway cars) ... make your own lists, they can be long.

Add to this list; I don't have time this morning.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:03 PM

I suspect your complete list could get longer and broader.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 3, 2016 2:51 PM

Forgot about Caltrain.  They are suffering from too many passengers with not enough passenger cars.  They have decided to forgo loco hauled cars in  antipitation of buying EMUs for their electrification which has a 2020  (?) completion day.  will they be able to get EMUs by then ?  Only  ---- knows. When push comes to shove if electrification is activated maybe get some ACS-64s .

Another problem is the large number of short platform stations  ( 5 -6 car )  Caltrain did mitigate that by starting their very successful baby bullet longer trains that bypassed the short platform stations

Will add this to original post

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, July 3, 2016 4:26 PM

Groan...

To quote the late Casey Stengal, "Can't anyone play this here game?"

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, July 4, 2016 6:47 AM

schlimm
I suspect your complete list could get longer and broader.

Amen, brother!

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, July 4, 2016 7:00 AM

blue streak 1
They have decided to forgo loco hauled cars in antipitation of buying EMUs for their electrification which has a 2020 (?) completion day ...  Another problem is the large number of short platform stations (5 -6 car).

A significant issue with the 'loco hauled' scenario is that the short platform length is usually dictated by cross streets at either end.  An EMU train of 'equivalent capacity' would not have the locomotive overhanging one end to block the relevant street, which has been mentioned as a major issue when increasing overall train consist length.  It might be interesting to consider the 'incremental cost' of EMU bilevels over the cost of unmotored ones, both in procurement cost and overall maintenance vs. locomotive-hauled HEP equivalents.

One potential point in favor of EMU stock is that, if autonomous or 'telepresence' control becomes acceptable for this kind of service ... as I think is safe and feasible even with existing technology and programming ... more frequent 'short trains' can be run on appropriate headways, increasing the usefulness of the service considerably over what can be achieved with discrete locomotives each nece$$arily $ized to handle peak train load.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, July 4, 2016 11:41 AM

Overmod
 A significant issue with the 'loco hauled' scenario is that the short platform length is usually dictated by cross streets at either end.  An EMU train of 'equivalent capacity' would not have the locomotive overhanging one end to block the relevant street, which has been mentioned as a major issue when increasing overall train consist length.  It might be interesting to consider the 'incremental cost' of EMU bilevels over the cost of unmotored ones, both in procurement cost and overall maintenance vs. locomotive-hauled HEP equivalents. 

Lcomotive overhang is already a problem as most train are at their length limit.  Eliminating various platform restrictions is posted as much more costly than CAT installation.  Note the overhang is always on the south end of trains.  So if EMUs not available but electric motor ( ACS-64s ? ) used the present loco hauled cars would fill in but with overcrowding approaching the LIRR values. Purchase of loco hauled cars meet the same availability constraints noted in this thread. 

Documents previously posted stated that EMUs were the first choice for their faster acceleration and slowing capability thereby shortening schedules.  That would may allow same number of train sets to make more runs. 

The lack of USA content built EMUs may delay implementation by Caltrain.  They could ---------

1. Continue using their diesels

2.  Buy some ACS-64s and lease them to Amtrak or someone else once EMUs in operation

3.  Delay the finished construction of the CAT to match EMU deliviery.

CalTrain has announced planned upgrading of the route San Jose to Gilroy using the surplus loco hauled cars to provide the capacity of round trip operation instead of 5 inbound in morning a 5 outbound in afternoon. Not electrified. Doubling the main to Gilroy for 2 MT operation is now in the planning stage.

 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy