http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/streetcar-ridership-drops-significantly-new-fare/nqRDW/
Channel 2 Action News has learned the Atlanta Streetcar probably took in less than $10,000 last month, the first month for which the system charged passengers a $1 fare. That is about 1/500 of the annual $5 million operating and maintenance cost for the system.
Sooner or later these cities will learn that these streetcars named "Nowhere" are nothing but a financial drain on their city's budgets. They are only built to satisfy some bureaucrat's ego or to buy votes as Democrats normally do. Huge waste of money. Rode one recently in Charlotte, NC. I could have walked the whole route distance faster.
But Portland, OR is successful, Kenosha, Seattle, Salt Lake City, and of course San Francisco. I am mentioning the streetcars in the latter three, not their also successful light rail systems. Also, Lowell, MA. Also, San Diego, the latter not requiring any additional tracks beyond the light rail sytem. Possibly ditto Sacramento if still operating. The idea for San Diego and Sacramento as I understand it is that if you have downtown tracks for light rail run a local heritage or heritage-like streetcar for shoppers and tourists.
I read that Charlotte plans to expand their line!
Dave, how many of those systems you mentioned actually make money for their city with no subsidies? We're not talking just ridership numbers.
The point with Atlanta is that so few people bother to ride the thing if they have to pay a dollar every time. A substantial part of the Memphis trolley ridership was tourists; I got the distinct impression that the Atlanta system was intended serve primarily those of its citizens who have to rely on mass transit to get around.
The street car website shows that this is a short, closed loop route which is the probable reason for its light patronage. IMO this would have been a better 'shuttle bus' route.
Most of the above mentioned systems are somewhat linear and much longer with some dedicated ROW running, therefore becoming a more reliable alternative to buses or cars on congested streets and freeways.
The city of Los Angeles has proposed to build a similar downtown trolley loop which would also be a boondoggle. There are already scores of bus routes crossing three rail lines in the area, just need to be more clever about discouraging car use and improving traffic flows for what is in place.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
.
Making money with no susidies is a pretty tall order for any urban passenger carrying system these days. Can you name an urban bus line that does?However, considering all costs, it will cost less to move people by streetcar on street trackage dthan by bus IF you have 25,000 riders/day, on average, or more. This includes amortized construction costs, fuel or power, all maintenance, and all labor.
Admittadly, very few of the systems, even those judged successful, meet this criterion. If Atlanta has only 1,000 passengers per day, it would be pretty hard for me to justify its consruction from a transportation point of view. Other factors can be real estate values, torism, or whatever. Probably, in the USA, the only streetcar line that really earns its keep purely financially is SF's F.
Our Jerusalem one-line light rail system is now handling 140,000 passengers per typical weekday. It is paying its way. Jaffa Road has been transformed into a beautiful clean pedestrian and transit street, with many sidewalks cafes, quiet, clean air. what used to be noisy and mstly bus traffic polluted. It won the British Light Rail Transport Association award for environmental impact. Had business downtown today, and with my monthly pass, enjoyed its use as a horizontal elevator. It is light rail in that only emergency vehicles can share its mostly paved RoW, but a streetcar in that there is essentially no grade separation, and downtown the sidewalk is the station platform.
How can a line designed to move 20,000 people past a given point in one hour in each direction handle 140,000/per day? Each two car train can handle about 400 passengers, 150 seated and 250 standing. Multiple destinations mean that most seats see two people, on the average, on each trip, with a minority riding end-to-end or near end-to-end.
I have not seen any single-car operation since early testinig in 2009. Each car is an Alsthom Civitas 302, like Dublin's but mu and all-wheels-powered. Three trucks, four articulation joints, and five body sections, four wheels under the end and center sections, two single-panel doors and four double-panel doors each side..
Now Jerusalem buses have gone to proof-of-payment, with entrance and exit at any door and card readers on stantions inside. One-trip-no-transfercash fares still are applicable at the front door with the dirver.
Regarding security: Off-duty policemen and off-duty military are required to have their weapons with them at all times. I think this is in part a result from the report of what happened on the European train.
Tel Aviv's first "Light Rail Line" will be mostly an underground Metro. Saw lots of construction progress yesterday. And a Taxi driver (equivalent to an American who's family came over on the Mayflower, since his came to Jerusalem as one of the 70 invited by the Muslems to return to Jerusalem when they expelled the Crusaders) seemed to both knowledgable and enthusiastic about its construction! But even though he now works and lives in Petah Tiqwa, he says he really regards himself as a Jerusalemite and will return when retired.
(I could not match his being descended from one of the 70 families, but I was able to tell him that members of NYCity congregation did fight in GW's Army and that it was the oldest Jewish congregation in North America.)
Of course I use public transportation when possible. Went from Jerusalem to the Arlozoroff Tel Aviv bus and rail station by Egged express bus, then by Dan 82 bus, also now proof-of-payment, to Petah Tiqwa's Bellinson Hospital for an examination, a 12:20 appointment. I planned on meeting an MIT classmate at the Arlosoroff Station for lunch at 14:15. But the doc didn't see me until 13:30, found the cab at the door of the hospital at 13:50, and decided to spend the cash to be on time.
runnerdude48to buy votes as Democrats normally do. Huge waste of money. Rode one recently in Charlotte, NC. I could have walked the whole route distance faster.
1. In view of the new policy about politics, your comment breaks the rules.
2. Farebox recovery is not necessary if the streetcar can actually reduce congestion in Central Atlanta.
3. As another poster noted, your comment on Charlotte seems at variance with that of most observers, especially Phoebe.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Where did I discuss politics or candidates? Sorry, Schlimm, a cab driver's personal history and the history of my congregation ARE NOT POlITICS.
Speculation about our security situation isn't either. Merely answering those who asked me in other correspondnce if removing the driver eye's from inspecting every person boarding the bus might possibly reduce security. Security is important to encourage people to ride public transport of all types.
I got my information on Charlotte Light Railfrom the latest Bulletin of the Electric Railroaders' Association, and possibly the poster you are referring to does have more recent information. Thank you.
Hey Schlimm, a computer error made me think you were referring to my post. I am glad we are on the same team here, double thanks. I agree completely with your post!
Respectfully Dave, check schlimm's comment again. His comeback was directed at runnerdude, not you.
That's interesting, I didn't know your congregation went as far back as the Revolution, I know Haym Salomon's congregation in Providence RI did, but then I shouldn't be surprised. New York was a pretty cosompolitan place even as far back as the Dutch days.
Hayyim Solomon was a member of Mikvah Israel Congregatiion (still exists) in Philadelphia during the Revolution. He may have moved to Providence afterward.
At the time of the Revolution, there was one Jewish Congregation in each of the following cities: New York (New Amsterdam when the congregation was started), Philadelphia, Richmond, and Charleston. The Newport Synsgogue was a branch of New York's summer homes. Today, the building, the USA's oldest synagogue building, is rented to the local congregation. The Charleston congregation is also in its original Colonial-Era buildihg, but has become a Reform congregation,
I have a photocopy of GW's letter to the four congregations.
I've read the Generals letter to the congregations, it's well written and full of wisdom we should all remember and live by.
Quite a man, General George. I wish he was still around.
Oh, and I've been to the old Jewish cemetery here in Richmond, VA. There's a section in it for Jewish Confederate veterans, which didn't suprise me. Virginia was their home, and when the time came they fought for it just like many others.
Some of us (Dave, Firelock, et al.) should start a history thread, 'Rail and Tangents' or some such handle. I realize it would not be strictly rail-oriented, but if we kept politics out, maybe it would "pass the mustard."
Well, the old C&O railroad, now CSX, runs through Shockoe Valley right next to where the Richmond Jewish cemetery is AND Shockoe Valley is where the Richmond Locomotive Works used to be. How's zat?
And NO WAY am I going to go political!
With my two partners at Klepper Marshall King, I served as acoustical consultant to the architect for Richmond's Federal Reserve Building. Then I read Doug Riddell's FROM THE CAB and realized the building was on the old SAL-SCL yards' land, where he often worked.
daveklepper With my two partners at Klepper Marshall King, I served as acoustical consultant to the architect for Richmond's Federal Reserve Building. Then I read Doug Riddell's FROM THE CAB and realized the building was on the old SAL-SCL yards' land, where he often worked.
No kidding, what a small world! My wife, Lady Firestorm, works for the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond. I'll have to tell her about your acoustical work there.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.