LIRR's Cannonball is getting seriously overcrowded. FRA is now investigating safety concers from well healed passengers. Might need to run a second section ?
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/17/lirr-federal-probe/
When did the "Cannonball" start originating at Penn Station? It used to originate at Hunterspoint Ave.
Excerpt from Newsday, May 23, 2013
The Long Island Rail Road has a piece of advice for travelers looking to take the first ever nonstop train from Penn Station to the Hamptons this afternoon: Be early.
The LIRR says it has seen unprecedented demand for the "Cannonball."
The agency announced last month that the popular Friday afternoon summer train, which has for years departed out of Hunterspoint Avenue in Queens, would run out of Manhattan this summer.
Until about 1950, the Cannonball did run out of Penn Station, with DD-1 power to Jamaica. Several years ago, the new dual-power locomotives allowed summer rstoration to Penn from L. I. City.
They'd have a little more room on the trains if they'd put the bar cars back on!
Firelock76 They'd have a little more room on the trains if they'd put the bar cars back on!
In the past, the "Cannonball" was an all-parlor and parlor-lounge train, so a bar car would have been redundant. I don't know the current arrangement.
LIRR tries to improve Cannonball.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/nyregion/new-rules-on-crowding-for-the-hamptons-express.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=2
LIRR notice
http://web.mta.info/supplemental/lirr/LirrAsksFridayAfternoonCannonballCustomers.htm
The LIRR has stepped up to the plate concerning Montauk service every year with so many service improvements. A new signal system was installed east from Patchaouge several years ago but the last leg of single track into Montauk has not been done yet and, thus, a form of train order and timetable system remains. When trains began being over crowded, especailly westbounds on Sundays, crews and equipment were scrambled together when needed; then they started planning on the extra moves ahead of time; then they eliminated the extra moves and scheduled trains in the timetables. Improvements attracted more and more people. Because no new equipment has been purchased nor has there been an increase in the number of train crews nor the line double tracked or more sidings installed and the signal system continued to end of track, nothing more can really be done. They have to more than replace the aging equipment, they have to get more cars and more locomotives. Because NY and LI expanded thanks to Rober Moses and his highways and parkways it has been difficult to get people and poiticians to grasp the concept of how a railroad operates and what it takes for it to provide service. Too many believe in the Lionel train under the Christmas tree as how it all works and don't realize the planning, the long range planning, the need for equipment and people to operate the equipment, and the financial investment that has to be made for it to provide the desired and needed services. Right now, the LIRR is on the verge of losing the battle because their efforts have been so good in a place where the service is so badly needed.
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The LIRR shut down last week from Jamica - NYP was evidently caused by a bare wire acccordiing to today's newswire. Has anyone observed if LIRR's signaling has above ground cables. Any cable that old exposed to the elements will have insulating chafing. Article says temporary repairs made. Guess some electrical tape around bare wire ? Actually tongue in cheek. Probably rerouted wiring to unused good wire(s)
This may be a wake up call to LIRR that their signal cable needs replacing. Anyone know more about it ?
The big problem I see is that LIRR blamed Amtrak for the delays. The news wires say it happened between Woodside and Harold. Problem might have caused Harold CP not to work. As far as I know that is all LIRR and not Amtrak
LIRR has a system that constantly breaks down even after being completely rebuilt in an area, and a fleet that kind of sort of works but not so reliably that you have enough working equipment to give any run enough equipment. Plus trains run so slowly on so much of the system that a given piece of equipment can do fewer runs. Some of this COULD be fixed by the 3rd track the NIMBY's are fighting so hard. Double tracking the PJ line would be of huge help here, and getting the 2nd track to Ronkonkoma done in the current millenium! But the current diesel fleet, badly designed and, I suspect, not so well maintained, needs to be supplemented and replaced. Dual modes that are reliable and that only need one loco per train would be nice, too.
RTroy, do you ride the line regularly? If not, I would appreciate a comment from peopole who do. My impression is that the equipment in general is not poorly designed for the job. The Multiple-unit electric cars are identacle except for ATC circuitry and type of third rail shoes as the Metro-North cars, and they give excellent service there. And while we hear of electrical, tunnel, and signal problems, I do not recall any posting on a locomotive or head-end power failure on a diesel train. (We have seen such postings with regard to Amtrak. Hopefully no more.)
The DM/DE33ACs and to a lesser extent C3s have not aged well. The original DE/DM mongrelization combined EMD parts with Siemens electronics and Super Steel construction which didn't work out as planned. One DM has been converted to a DE because it spectacularly failed. They often need to be double headed in order to be sure the train will get over the road.
The MUs are fine, and the M9s will be here soon.
There isn't a DM/DE replacement forseeable now, though.
Does the Friday-evening Cannonball, which requries DMs, regular run with two locomotives? And the return Sunday evening? And does this power essentially just sit at Montauk the weekend? What abouit the DE power on other Montaujk trains?
If there is no replacement program for the DMs or DEs, are LIRR shop people developing fixes to improve reliability, the way early-on Wilmington developed fixes for the AEM-7-ACs which then became reliable?
It *always* usesd to start at NYP...
Jackshafts pulled it out to Harold where the Steam Locomotives took over.
I guess that project ended with the Jackshafts.
Diesels coun Never go into NYP, but the dual modes made it possible to bring this service back again.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
well aware of the Cannonball history and saw the LIRR DD1s in action, even on freight! One group of diesels did, on occation, run into Penn Station, the NYNH&H FL9s. After Van Nus closed, and the EF-3as were innactive, when a "Jet" EP-5 was not available, the FL-9 set from Boston would run into Penn. While fairly new, the double-srpung EMD third-rail shoes did successfully pickup power from the LIRR third rail, and the 3-position NYNH&H cab-signal system (on the NU used east of New Haven to Readville) did respond to the PRR 4/5 system.
daveklepperDoes the Friday-evening Cannonball, which requries DMs, regular run with two locomotives? And the return Sunday evening? And does this power essentially just sit at Montauk the weekend? What abouit the DE power on other Montaujk trains?
LIRR runs two DM on every diesel train into NYP. This is so because AMTK who owns the station will not allow push-pull service with one locomotive on the LIRR. The switch gaps in the third rail are up to 600' long in parts of the station. An operator in an MU unit or on a DM locomotive can *see* where the gaps are, but with the locomotive in the rear and only a cab in the front, the Engineer has no idea if the locomotive stops on a third rail or on a gap. And if it stops on a gap then it will not move until it gets a helper from somewhere.
AMTK can run the Empire trains in with just one locomotive because it is always on the front, and after discharging the pax, it moves forward to Sunnyside where the train takes the loop, thus the locomtive is always in the front.
The issue does not apply to NJT and AMTK west trains since there are no gaps in the catinary.
Should LIRR get new Dual Mode locomotives LION would make them with dual cabs (one at each end of the Locomotive.) Thus East end trains can be pulled into the station, and then run the locomotive around to the front for the outbound trip. This can be done in the station, but would be better in the West End Yard so as not to tie up other traffice.
[quote user="BroadwayLion"]
LIRR had major weather delays Monday evening. Closed Penn station. Now what happens to the Amtrak passenger if they cannot get to their trains. Also NJT train passengers ?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/severe-weather-wreaks-havoc-long-island-rail-road-service-article-1.2725877
Notice says "Weather Related Signal Trouble" and it has also closed service to Brooklyn. Problem seems to be at Jamaica.
Ergo, other NYP services ought to be intact.
LION wonders what has happened.
Bad storm with high winds and lightning on Monday that took down several trees.
BroadwayLionNotice says "Weather Related Signal Trouble" and it has also closed service to Brooklyn.
That is perhaps the most colossal understatement since Sandy. Some of the most severe weather I've ever seen on local radar -- and I lived in the area until 1992 and kept a house there until almost 1998 -- went through during that time. I'm not surprised it affected LIRR rail operations; in fact, I'm a little surprised there weren't NEC cat failures all over the place...
What causes these weather related delays on LIRR? Last time there noted that there were many locations that signal wires were either pole line and / or pole cable. Is that still the case ?
blue streak 1 What causes these weather related delays on LIRR? Last time there noted that there were many locations that signal wires were either pole line and / or pole cable. Is that still the case ?
Can't speak directly to the LIRR, however, in recent years carrier's signal systems have become dependent on 3rd party electrical power and communications systems, additionally satellite systems are disrupted by severe weather (just ask Dish or Direct TV users what happens when T'storms are in the area). Throw in several hundred thousands of volts of Lightning striking electronics installations designed for proper operation on millivolts and you have problems galore to resolve for 'seamless' operations.
Under the best of conditions Nature can be held at bay, in Severe Weather Nature is undefeated over the long haul.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It's from ten years ago but this is a good book on the subject.
https://www.amazon.com/Gravy-Train-Inside-Look-Island/dp/155395484X
BaltACDadditionally satellite systems are disrupted by severe weather (just ask Dish or Direct TV users what happens when T'storms are in the area).
This has nothing to do with storm intensity per se, or any wind or electrical effects; it's absorbance of the satellite signal when a large mass of atmospheric water interrupts 'line-of-sight' from the geosynchronous satellite to the dish facing it. Is there critical railroad data that is handled over geosync connections susceptible to this?
RME BaltACD This has nothing to do with storm intensity per se, or any wind or electrical effects; it's absorbance of the satellite signal when a large mass of atmospheric water interrupts 'line-of-sight' from the geosynchronous satellite to the dish facing it. Is there critical railroad data that is handled over geosync connections susceptible to this?
BaltACD
My carrier is using satellite radio for train dispatchers at some locations. The service sucks as there is a detectable delay between pressing the PTT pedal and actually being able to transmit - seems as if the command to transmit has to make a round trip to the satellite and back before the channel is actually readied for transmission.
Some locations are using satellite transmitted Code Line for some CTC control points. The delay in this installation is not as obvious as you are not trying to hold a conversation with another human being.
BaltACDseems as if the command to transmit has to make a round trip to the satellite and back before the channel is actually readied for transmission.
That would be right... plus the latency on the satellite while the downlink is selected and established. Interesting that the speed of light is one of the limiting factors in your quality of service!
RME BaltACD That would be right... plus the latency on the satellite while the downlink is selected and established. Interesting that the speed of light is one of the limiting factors in your quality of service!
The delay is a real pain in trying to hold a conversation with delays as it happens each and every time you go to initiate a segment of the conversation with someone in the field - I don't know how it really affects personnel in the field using the Vsat towers - the Train Dispatcher initiates the PTT and 2 to 3 seconds later sees on his communication console that he can now transmit.
With the set up of the radios being PTT. If you are trying to transmit, you can't hear anything the field is trying to say to you until you release the PTT, then your response will get the delay again. PAIN PAIN PAIN
Land lines to/from the radio transmitters don't have the delay.
One thing I might add, is that a number of the more remote PTC installations are using Vsat data transmission. I have my own misgivings how well and reliably this will actually work.
I worked with a firm that bidded for satellite terminals (called "VSAT" in our industry) at a major American railroad.
I have been studying satellite technology since the 1980s and when Ku- and Ka-band was introduced, the industry learned quickly that they do not work well when it rains. Snow, ice, clouds, fog, and smog have no effect. It must be liquid water and only liquid water. The more sophisticated satellite terminals increase power on the uplink to compensate for the water but nothing can be done about the downlink.
Now, about that downlink. This is what DirecTV, DISH Network, Hughesnet, WildBlue, and Exede people call "rain fade" which completely blocks reception about 3 minutes before, during, and 3 minutes after a storm. I casually asked what their railroad's PTC system will do when the downlink signal is interrupted. The customer stated, bluntly, that signals drop to "stop" immediately. This meant that during a rainstorm, your railroad is very likely to just stop. And in many cases your assets go into emergency braking as the storm passes over. So you watch on your CTC display as trains stop region by region as the storm moves overhead and isolates your PTC systems communicating via fancy modern VSAT terminals.
Oh, yeah, and there's that 3/4 second delay.
Europe discarded VSAT satellite terminals and when land lines aren't practical they use a terrestrial system called GSM-R, which is basically a cell phone connection with fancy peer-to-peer features.
Ku-band was bad, but Ka-band is much, much worse. Unfortunately, Ka-band is what most modern VSAT terminals use today.
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